revchuck Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 In theory, this should go in the Reloading forum, but I don't think they'd understand. I've decided to move away from Titegroup for my .38 Special plated bullet loads, even though it's about the perfect burn rate for the application (4.3 grains yields ~830 fps from a 4" gun). I made that decision when I literally gave myself first degree burns when I got my M19 back from Mike Carmoney and was shooting (relatively) quickly and doing stronghand reloads on a 95 degree day - the area around the forcing cone got that hot. I've decided to try Solo 1000, based on rave reviews some have given it and the fact that it's a single-base powder, which is supposed to result in cooler burning. Unfortunately, the listed jacketed bullet +P data tops out at 796 fps from a 6" barrel, and I shoot mostly IDPA. I've got a couple of alternatives (other than sticking with lead bullets): Ignore the data and load this powder to 830 fps, or find another powder. Since I'll be doing most of my shooting with the M19, I'm leaning toward the former, but I have .38s I like to shoot too. I know that using over +P ammo won't blow up my .38 K frames, but will increase wear. I'm just wondering how much faster they'd wear out. Suggestions for an alternative powder are welcome! TIA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoon Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Over the years I've heard how one can't blow up a Rem 870, but witnessed a lady loose her left eye when the receiver peeled back and took it out. I've helped bend a K-frame top strap back after it pinched the web of the shooter's hand, pinning his hand to the gun (yeah, 2.8 or 3.2 gr. of Bullseye). I've had packaging mechanics tell me the machines in use for 5 years can't possibly function as the manufacturer designed them. I've had auto mechanics tell me they can set ignition specs better by sound than with measuring devices. I've had many a reloader tell me they can work up better (hotter, faster) loads then any manufacturer by just using the feel of the gun in recoil or... I stay with guidelines from sources willing and able to stand behind the guidelines. You've been around enough to know that almost any and every powder will be the favorite of someone. Only you can decide between the combination of soot, smoke, muzzle flash, recoil impulse, and intangibles make you happy. I'll be trying American Select next time I load .38 spls. But it probably won't matter -- 'cause the weak link in my performance is me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoon Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Decided it appropriate to add that "I have felt your pain" with Titegroup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Suggestions to try, sticking with Titegroup powder. Try using a glove on the weak hand. Using strong to weak hand transfer for the reload, you can cradle the cylinder long enough to do the reload without cooking too much flesh. Switch to a reload maintaining the strong hand grip, so the only contact with the cylinder is your index finger pushing the cylinder open, and gloved weak hand pushing it closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 My suggestion is hike up your skirt and go back to Titegroup. Do something about those girly hands too (sorry if any women were offended in this He needed the lashing) With my 627 I use 5.5gr to get major PF. It works great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Titegroup in revo is an incentive to do faster reloads. The quicker the reload the less time support hand stays in contact with cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Titegroup in revo is an incentive to do faster reloads. The quicker the reload the less time support hand stays in contact with cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 Try using a glove on the weak hand. Stan - I am not into the Michael Jackson look. My suggestion is hike up your skirt and go back to Titegroup. Do something about those girly hands too (sorry if any women were offended in this He needed the lashing) You haven't seen my legs. Be thankful. Titegroup in revo is an incentive to do faster reloads. The quicker the reload the less time support hand stays in contact with cylinder. That's a lot of help! Geez, and I thought youse guys wuz my buddies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdkay Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 You don't specify what bullet weight you are using. If you are using the 158's that max load of solo might JUST work. You may get slightly higher velocities with plated bullets. I've managed to get some pretty good burns from my 625 when shooting major, let alone my .357's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Z Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I've been using Solo 1000 for a long time. I really like it. It's clean, cool and consistant. 3 grains under a 150 grain RN is what I use for plate loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COF Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Titegroup in revo is an incentive to do faster reloads. The quicker the reload the less time support hand stays in contact with cylinder. It's not the cylinder I worry about - it's the forcing cone. Being a lefty, my right thumb comes into regular contact with it when reloading. Titegroup definitely heats it up! I've burned my thunb several times. I just started carrying a roll of 2" athletic tape in my shooting box and tape up the thumb before I start. You're right Chuck - we don't want to see those legs. Those pictures of Bones in a kilt was bad enough Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Those pictures of Bones in a kilt was bad enough Jerry Those were pretty scary. You guys just don't know how to wear a Kilt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sinko Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Has anybody been adventurous enough to try 3.5 grs. of Clays with a 158 gr. plated bullet? I have a feeling that is the charge I would need with the plated bullets. I know there are some who do .40 Major with Clays and while it is not generally recommended it can be done. If it is capable of doing .40 Major then it should be able to do .38 Minor in an S&W 66. Or maybe not? If not I may buy some Titegroup. I have an important outdoor winter match and the temperature may be in the single digits so I need something that will burn very clean and not leave any residue. Has anybody used SR7625 for 130 PF in the .38 Special? It seems to be quite satisfactory for .40 Major but I don't know if I will get a clean burn in the Special. I know 231 would work but it would be way too filthy and greasy, even with plated bullets. Dave Sinko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted October 26, 2007 Author Share Posted October 26, 2007 Dave - Here's some +P data I got from Hodgdon. This data is less than a year old, I believe. 158 GR. HDY XTP Longshot .357" 1.455" 5.5 965 17,000 PSI 158 GR. HDY XTP HS-6 .357" 1.455" 6.6 926 18,700 CUP 158 GR. HDY XTP Universal .357" 1.455" 4.7 837 19,200 CUP 158 GR. HDY XTP HP-38 .357" 1.455" 4.6 807 18,100 CUP 158 GR. HDY XTP Titegroup .357" 1.455" 4.3 905 19,300 CUP 158 GR. HDY XTP SR 4756 .357" 1.455" 5.5 928 17,900 PSI 158 GR. HDY XTP SR 7625 .357" 1.455" 4.7 881 17,800 PSI 158 GR. HDY XTP PB .357" 1.455" 4.1 836 17,900 PSI I chronoed the 7625 load from both 4" and 6 " barrels, and I remember it made minor from the 6" but not from the 4" using 158 grain Berry's RNs. I can't put my hands on the notebook in which I wrote the velocities down, though. I loaded the Longshot load a while ago just for grins, and it *did* make 130+ PF. I don't remember how clean/dirty it was. I can't say whether 3.5 grains of Clays would make it. I loaded 3.4 under 160 grain moly coated RNs, and it makes the PF from the 6", but not the 4". BTW, I asked if these loads were valid for lead bullets, and the answer was "sure". If anyone wants the entire table (it includes bullet weights from 110 - 170 grains) email me at the address in my profile and I'll forward it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 It's not the cylinder I worry about - it's the forcing cone. Being a lefty, my right thumb comes into regular contact with it when reloading. Titegroup definitely heats it up! I've burned my thumb several times. I just started carrying a roll of 2" athletic tape in my shooting box and tape up the thumb before I start.Jerry OK. I was thinking your burns were caused by the cylinder, because the front end of that can get pretty hot on long stages during summertime. Forcing cone is for sure going to put a hurt on your thumb. What you need to do is hitch a ride on the Starship Enterprise. Go through a wormhole to their alternate universe. Pick up a couple of revolvers from the nearest department store [in this alternate universe, government will be run by conservatives rather than liberals, and our gun purchase restrictions won't exist]. Since these revolvers will be mirror images of our versions, you will be able to do your reloads with no more contact with hot parts than the cylinder. Easier would be to learn to make reloads the same way right-handers do them. Seriously, I don't think you'll find that other powders, even if slower than Titegroup, won't make that much of a difference on the temperature of the forcing cone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sinko Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 I checked my records and I see that I have chronographed 158 gr. cast bullets with various charges of Clays to determine what I needed to make 125 PF. One cylinder full of 3.4 grs. of Clays produced 131 PF but that charge weight is already over maximum in the manual. Plated bullets always give me lower velocities so I figured I'd need to bump that charge to 3.5 grs. to get roughly the same velocity, especially in sub-freezing temperature. I have a fair quantity of SR7625 that I bought for .40 Major in USPSA Limited and shotgun slugs and buckshot but I am trying to stick with the revolver and would rather not get involved in Limited, though it is very tempting. Then there is Viht N320 which burns very cleanly and produces hardly any muzzle flash. That is about the perfect powder but since it's so expensive I'll save the four lbs. that I have for more serious applications. Also, 800X has great potential but it will not meter worth a damn in the 550. I have never tried 700X in the 550 so I don't know if it suffers from the same problem or not. Is XMP5744 a viable powder for the .38 Special? Somehow I don't think so. I remember trying it in the .45 Colt and unburned granules would drop down into the cylinder stop window and completely tie up the action. What good is a safe, low pressure powder if it constantly causes the gun to choke? Dave Sinko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted October 27, 2007 Author Share Posted October 27, 2007 Dave - I found my notebook. 4.7 grains of 7625 under a 158 grain Berry's RN loaded to 1.45" OAL in Winchester brass with Fed 100 primers went 790 fps from my 4" M19. This M19 is probably the "slowest" 4" .38/.357 of the nine I own; in my M10-8 and M681-2 it would probably make 130 PF with no problem. FWIW, with everything else the same, 5.5 grains of 4756 went 795 fps, 5.5 grains of Longshot went 791 fps, and 4.3 grains of Titegroup went 825 fps. I just came in from testing Solo 1000, and in mixed brass with a Rainier 158 grain over 4.0 grains (book max for +P) it went 758 fps from the M19 and 804 fps from the M681; using a 158 grain RNL it went 808 fps from the M19 and 844 from the M681. Going 10% over the book max to 4.4 grains gave 799 fps from the M19 and 821 fps from the M681, with much higher ES and SD than the others. I need to re-test it using my match brass (once-fired Federal) to see if the mixed brass caused the wider spread (which is my guess) or the higher pressure did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COF Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Easier would be to learn to make reloads the same way right-handers do them. I used to reload like a right hander but that was way too slow I used the method they taught us in the military but there was too much back and forth with the gun. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 With 125 gr. plated or jacketed I prefer either N-320 or American Select. For the 158 gr. plated bullets I have used Trail Boss with good results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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