txaggie Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Here is the scenario - stage at the Arkansas sectional back in May. On the stage, you have to engage a popper through a port which will activate a peek-a-boo target. Before activation when the target is static, only about 1" of the head appears above the no-shoot. The port is cut out of plywood, so you can't see the target or popper except through the port. The buzzer goes off and I begin the stage. When I get to the port I see that no one reset the weight on the front of the peek-a-boo target, so the no-shoot will not move out from in front of the target. Because of the setup of the port, the RO can't see that the prop is not reset correctly. This was my first level II match and hadn't encountered the situation before, so I stopped myself and informed the RO that the equipment was not set. The RO said ok, and he had me unload and show clear. When I went back to my buddies to get some more magazines, they told me that I should have kept shooting and not stopped myself, that I was risking zeroing the stage. And here is where my question finally leads, how should I have handled the situation. As I said, the shooter was the only one who could have seen the prop wasn't reset, if I don't engage the target then I risk the FTE and associated misses penalties. If I had gone ahead and engaged the target, then I risk the time to engage as well as the -10 no-shoot penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 As a general rule, tell the RO and keep shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Given the circumstances that you have described I believe that you did the appropriate thing. Had you finished & then told the RO it would become a case of why didn't you stop if you knew a target was not available. It would become a choice for the RO of decided if you forgot the target was there & didn't engage it or was it not available. If you keep shooting after knowing there is a problem requiring a reshoot then all you are doing is wasting ammo & energy & creating more work for the pasting crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 You did the right thing by stopping. It would have been a reshoot due to REF once the RO discovered the problem, or you told him about it. You did not get the same opportunity as the other competitors, which is the problem with REF; therefore stop and get the stage reset. Even if the RO doesn't think it was an issue, you always have the opportunity to call the RM. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 You inform the RO...and let them stop you (which sounds like what you did). If they don't stop you....better keep shooting. I was running a stage at an Area match this year that had a couple of poppers that activated targets. I had a shooter that hit the activator, then shuffled positions a bit to see another target. Their movement meant that they didn't see the target that got activated. They then looked at me and said..."hey, the activator didn't go". Well..it did activate...they needed to keep shooting (and they did, once they saw I wasn't going to respond). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I was running a stage at an Area match this year that had a couple of poppers that activated targets. I had a shooter that hit the activator, then shuffled positions a bit to see another target. Their movement meant that they didn't see the target that got activated. They then looked at me and said..."hey, the activator didn't go". Well..it did activate...they needed to keep shooting (and they did, once they saw I wasn't going to respond). Let's see if I understand what you are saying. You know he hit the popper because it activated a target that you saw happen, but the popper stayed up. So how is this not REF? Did he ask for calibration? Was the activated target reset also so he had the same condition for the reshoot? WHY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed K Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 (edited) I agree with Mr. McManus. Totally. Now since I've buttered you up..... how about letting me drop a 9mm conversion kit into my Glock 35, and be eligible to shoot production? Yeah, and monkeys will fly out of my butt. Edited October 18, 2007 by Ed K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 You know he hit the popper because it activated a target that you saw happen, but the popper stayed up. So how is this not REF? Did he ask for calibration? Was the activated target reset also so he had the same condition for the reshoot? WHY!!! Leroy, read the post again. The popper fell, the target activated, the competitor didn't see it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 You know he hit the popper because it activated a target that you saw happen, but the popper stayed up. So how is this not REF? Did he ask for calibration? Was the activated target reset also so he had the same condition for the reshoot? WHY!!! Leroy, read the post again. The popper fell, the target activated, the competitor didn't see it... Dave, as I read this the shooter was not talking about an activated target but about the activator (popper) itself. So if the popper fell but the shooter meant the activated target (clamshell maybe) then I could agree with Kyle but that is not how he wrote it to start with. I have seen occasions where a popper was hit & the target was activated but the popper didn't go down because the wiring was too tight & helped hold the popper up. I had a shooter that hit the activator, then shuffled positions a bit to see another target. Their movement meant that they didn't see the target that got activated. They then looked at me and said..."hey, the activator didn't go". Well..it did activate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 What XRe said. Sorry for not making that little story more clear. The shooter, in my case, shot the activating popper...the activating popper went down as the shooter shifted to shoot a different target...while they were shifted to shoot a different target, the appearing/disappearing came and went. When the shooter shifted back into a position to see the appearing/disappearing target it seemed to them that it hadn't activated. txaggie's situation brings up another good point on stage design and on running shooters. The RO's need to be able to see what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txaggie Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Thanks for the answers guys. I agree with Flex in that the stage needs to be setup in a way that the RO's can see what is happening downrange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwana Six-Gun Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) My .02 for what it is worth and two examples. Always keep shooting and announce to the RO that there is a problem. At Nationals this year, on Stage 3, you shot two arrays from basicly the start box, and then went up some steps and shot an array to your right and down through a port. When I got there and swung my pistol down, I saw that the targets weren't taped and just yelled out "Targets not taped" and kept on shooting. I managed to shoot three more targets before the RO stopped me, but I got a re-shoot, because after I cleared the port he could see my .45 holes and the extras from someone else. Last weekend at the MS ICORE Cup match on my last stage, I shot the first two arrays and then stepped on the activator for the drop turner. Nothing happened because it had not been re-set. This time, the RO saw what was happening and stopped me before I wasted any more ammo. My experience, announce the problem, but keep on shooting. Better to waste a few rounds than risk all the FTE and penalties if the RO does not catch what is going on or decides to be an a$$. Edited, cause I don't type too well after a couple of drinks. Edited October 20, 2007 by Bwana Six-Gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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