Production vs. Limited 10

[kamakiri]

In my opinion the main differences between the two divisions are, firstly, minor vs. major scoring, which can make a huge difference in certain courses of fire, and secondly the allowance of mag wells in L-10, which can also be significant over the course of a match-- both divisions require frequent reloads, and it's definitely harder to really blow a reload when you've got that big funnel on there. (In watching the super squads on just a few stages at last year's Production Nats., I saw at least three of the best reloaders in the world botch their reloads badly enough to drastically affect their stage scores. I guarantee that wouldn't have happened if they'd had their L-10 guns.) I don't think the remaining differences-- type of action, gun weight modification, etc.-- really affect things that much. The best shooters shoot well with whatever gun they've chosen to master.

Surveys of who uses what in L-10 are bound to be a little misleading, insofar as there are a whole lot of competitors out there who have already dropped $2,000-3,000 on a tricked out Limited gun, and since that same gun is also legal in L-10, why the heck wouldn't they use it? I imagine if they were required to buy another gun to shoot L-10, you'd see more other stuff: more single stacks, more non-1911s. Which is not to say that wide body 1911s aren't terrific L-10 guns, but simply that other guns are also competitive if they're given the chance. At this year's Area 7, the top shooters in L-10 were using XDs and HKs.

[eric nielsen]

Flex & LTS made really good posts. Here's an old thread, I like Post #1:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...mp;hl=divisions

[LPatterson]

The XD should have never been included because it is not a double action & was banned by IPSC on barrel length (5.1) when it should have been banned because ATFE listed it as a single action type gun.

BUT...

Once they let the striker fired Glock in (NOT a DA), keeping other striker fired guns (like the XD) would make even less sense. Stirker fired guns can be made almost as nice as SA guns.

I think that action (SA versus DA) is antiquated thinking and not a very good basis for category divisions. I know folks want to keep 1911's out of production but it doesn't even really make any sense to me when you can get great 1911's at the same price point.

But what do I know, I think progress is a good thing, and that seems runs against a lot of the thinking that runs USPSA.

Scott,

I agree with you that the Glock should not have been included in the beginning and now there is the M&P in the mix. There was the same problem in Revolver in the beginning because people that created the class were thinking about the old 6 shooter, then people started using 7 & 8 shot guns for the advantage and the rule got changed to 6 shots before a reload to keep things even. It is simply a case of trying to keep up with the Joneses. Time to mention the really nice 625 I picked up.

I started Production with a Beretta and no amount of money and effort trying to reduce the trigger pull could make it as smooth as the Glock shooters. On non Virginia count stages I was throwing the 1st round down range on the way up to the target so I could have that single action pull @ about 3 #. When the XD9 Tactical became readily available I bought one and sent it to you and I would equate your trigger job and Charlie Vanek's as equal. Charlie said the 2&1/2 was about as low as the Glock 21 would go & then Brian Hanna turned it into an Open gun for me(sweet Comp).

Shooters are funny people because when you make a rule they are going to try to stretch it as far as they can until someone draws a line in the sand and says NO FURTHER. Been there, done that & have the name tag to prove it.

[RickB]

In the Pacific Northwet, L10 is a single stack .45 division, and Production is dominated by 9mm Glocks; conceptually, could hardly be more different. Seeing more SIGs, M&Ps, and XDs in Production, over time, and rarely see any hi-caps, except the occasional cross-over from Production, in L10. A guy with a 6-shot revolver beat me in L10 once, but I don't see an exodus of round guns to L10, any time soon.

[VeryBadshot]

Wow, good stuff. I got a XD from a forum member, with a mag well. I shoot it (all 2 matches so far) in L10. I love it. Now as to what I have seen....I'll get back to ya. Still trying to see the target!