Scorekeeper's Duties

[RobMoore]

In IDPA, what are the limits of the scorekeeper's duties beyond just holding the clipboard and writing down the score?

I ask, because at a recent match, I noticed a procedural error that the SO didn't catch. It was just a local match, so who cares, but what happens at a major match?

Does the scorekeeper have any powers or duty to make known a procedural that the acting SO didn't catch?

[Ed Deegan]

Technically, the Clipboard operator/scorekeeper is the safety officer for the stage. They have the best overall view of the complete stage. The buzzer operator duty is to watch the handgun and the shooter(s)' movement for safety, as well as provide range commands. The SO with the clipboard watches cover, priority, sequence and all the other rules.

However, your club and SO's may do thing differently. 90% of the time, my wife and I SO together and we stay out of each others way.

I hope this answers your questions.

Regards,

Ed

[txaggie]

The scorekeeper should be looking at things like cover calls, counting rounds to make sure they were correctly loaded to division capacity, making sure that targets are engaged in the sequence ordered by the COF, etc.... The scorekeeper has many duties besides just recording the time and the score. The primary concern of the SO is the shooter and the gun, so that leaves a lot of responsibility to the scorekeeper to keep track of. And yes, back to your original question, they work as a team and if the SO didn't catch the procedural, then it is the duty and obligation of the scorekeeper to report it and keep track of it.

Edited July 16, 2007 by txaggie

[SMSI]

Do the rules specify who has the final word if there is a difference of opinion? Local practice around here seems to be that the buzzer operator "calls the shots."

[COF]

There are two SO's for the stage - the Chief Safety Officer, who handles the timer and is primarily concerned with safety issues - the shooter and the gun. The Assistant Safety Officer keeps score, but also looks for procedural errors. Strictly speaking, the CSO will have the final call, but he/she can't see the things the ASO can, so they need to trust and depend on the ASO's calls. I look at it as teamwork, rather than staying out of each other's way.

Jerry

[Hot Brass]

I agree with all the above duties of the ASO/scorekeeper, especially in a sanctioned match.

At the club level, the scorekeeper is often just about anyone who has a free hand. I think it is the responsibility of the certified SO's and experienced shooters to coach the scorekeeper in his/her responsibilities. Too often, at the club level, the scorekeeper is yapping with his buddies while the SO is running a shooter. He runs up after the shooter is clear and writes down the score. On numerous occasions, I've been entering scores after the match only to find that a time was not written on a scoresheet. This is a real injustice to the shooter and the scorekeeper is at fault. One last responsibility of the scorekeeper is to write legibly. If the person entering the scores can't read your handwriting, the benefit goes to the shooter. No one wants to loose because the stats person entered a 0 instead of an 8, due to poor handwriting.

If the shooter disagrees with the SO, it is the MD's job to make the call. Arguing with the SO is not the thing to do. Ask the SO to bring the MD over and make the call. Most SO's know this, but not all shooters do. Make sure you bring the MD over to address the issue ASAP. I learned this the hard way at the Nationals last year. I waited a couple of hours before running into the MD and making my case. He said I was right and should have goten a re-shoot because the targets were not pasted, but that I waited too long to bring the issue to his attention.

[Jane]

[drift]

To add to what HotBrass says...

It's a good idea to remind SHOOTERS of their responsibility in putting their initials on the score sheets. Some shooters don't bother, or don't even look at the score sheet... whether from laziness or because they don't want to be seen as range lawyers.

When you're entering scores and get a score sheet with no time AND BOTH THE SO AND SHOOTER HAVE SIGNED IT... ARGH!

The shooter should make sure his score sheet is legible and complete before signing it!

[/drift]

[RobMoore]

I welcome the thread drift, jane, because I to see that as a problem.

Checking and initialing my score sheet is something I got in the habit of doing with USPSA, so I do it at IDPA matches, but I never see anyone I'm scoring for come check afterwards.

[Punkin Chunker]

I welcome the thread drift, jane, because I to see that as a problem.

Checking and initialing my score sheet is something I got in the habit of doing with USPSA, so I do it at IDPA matches, but I never see anyone I'm scoring for come check afterwards.

I think that's true at most club-level matches, and I agree that it is part of scorekeeer's responsibilities.

I'm not an SO, but as was pointed out, most club-level matches involve anybody who's willing to help getting involved and keeping score. I try to let the REAL SO focus on shooter and safety (and in a lot of cases, debriefing the shooter), while I take responsibility for the stage and compliance. Cover, tactical priority/sequence, rounds, etc. -- I try to keep up with that. If there's a saftety issue that involves muzzle direction, I'll get involved. End of the stage, when line is clear, first thing I do is call the next shooter to the line, then go forward to score.

After scoring, I visually check that all targets are pasted, steel is reset, and the stage is clear downrange (no range chickens pecking brass or last minute pasters/dry-runs downrange) and ready for the next shooter, and report that to the SO, then call the shooter, the on-deck, and the double-deck to the squad.

I'm not a rules expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn (and I do listen), so when a rule discussion pops up, if I know it I'll chime in, but if I don't I'll follow Lincoln's advice (it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt).

Just $.02, adjusted for inflation.

[Suches]

When I run a squad as SO at a club match, meaning I "run the timer," I tell the squad at the outset that my focus is safety and the shooter, and whoever is kind enough to keep score I expect to watch for PEs, etc. It isn't always effective, but usually is, and I find that non-SO scorekeepers enjoy the additional responsibility and find it a good way to become more conscious of the rules. Also, our MD runs SO classes regularly, with the goal of having every regular shooter certified. A lot of people don't want the responsibility of formally SO'ing, but they take the class and the quality of their scorekeeping, and observation from the peanut gallery, is increased. In addition, raising the rules IQ of the club generally has made everybody more rules observant and compliant, which has actually resulted in less controversy.

[richardschennberg]

Like it or not, IDPA rules are designed for the timer SO only to make the call. In some cases he is supposed to direct the shooter to correct an error("cover") and does not award a penalty if:

1. He does not notice the problem;

2. He fails to warn the shooter ("cover");

3. The shooter responds to the warning.

In the final case (3) the shooter has lost time and focus by having to retreat, and there is no point in piling on with a procedural penalty.

We are relying on the timer SO to make the right call, and no one gets to overrule the head referree in most sports anyway.

[kdmoore]

Richard,

IIRC, the new rulebook recognized the "pros" shoot so fast they could be done "blowing cover" before the warning ever came, and it is no longer required. I suspect the spirit of comraderie and the history of the practice and the mortal speeds most shooters use all add up to no penalties without a warning, but it is no longer the law ...