BigDave Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 I wanna see air under that front tire coming out of one of those turns next time. Looks like fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Time to start wearing out those tires and knee pucks. Even that 250 should be leaving giant grease marks coming out of those turns, especially if it's hot hot hot. Thats what I've been telling Erik. The reason for the sliders is not to protect your knee IF you contact it, but to let it slide smoothly with some amount of weight on it at speed in the corners WHEN you contact it. Now you can almost "Flat Track" it around the corners and if the rears scoots, the knee keeps the bike up kinda' like a tripod while adding throttle brings the wheel back in control. If the front pushes, the knee again takes the temporary load while you pour on enough throttle to take the rear around to catch up with the front and get it back on line. In a perfect world, the knee is taking appreciable weight almost all the time you are on the gas in sweepers and is what actually keeps you from sliding out. In my day (late 70's), we used duct tape to get the same sliding effect (hint, leather grabs). You had to put a lot on and maybe even a chunk-o-lumynum under the tape to keep the knee itself from grindin' ifnya' spent much time heeled over. In the rain, it really is just like flat trackin' on your knee I have never raced a 125 before, but at 175 lbs and 35+ HP it oughta' get up and move pretty darned good too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Bagger Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Time to start wearing out those tires and knee pucks. Even that 250 should be leaving giant grease marks coming out of those turns, especially if it's hot hot hot. Thats what I've been telling Erik. The reason for the sliders is not to protect your knee IF you contact it, but to let it slide smoothly with some amount of weight on it at speed in the corners. Now you can almost "Flat Track" it around the corners and if the rears scoots, the knee keeps the bike up kinda' like a tripod while adding throttle brings the wheel back in control. If the front pushes, the knee again takes the temporary load while you pour on enough throttle to take the rear around to catch up with the front and get it back on line. In a perfect world, the knee is taking appreciable weight almost all the time you are on the gas in sweepers and is what actually keeps you from sliding out. In my day (late 70's), we used duct tape to get the same sliding effect (hint, leather grabs). You had to put a lot on and maybe even a chunk-o-lumynum under the tape to keep the knee itself from grindin' In the rain, it really is just like flat trackin' on your knee Coming out of turn 8 Willow Springs after a guy had dropped some oil...was really happy when that front tire caught just before the dirt. Knees sure come in handy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Tossed it over a cliff on the Sunday Morning Ride (Northern CA thing) back in 78 at about 100. Was slingshotting past someone on the way through a blue sky corner next to Tomales Bay on Highway 1. Wasn't dragging a knee cause it was public roads with Bott's dots on the centerline (never, EVER hit a Botts dot wth your knee). Lost the front cause it was hot and greeezy. Went over the cliff on my butt at 90+ and landed on my back on a lawn after a 40 foot fall. I looked around and saw I landed just 10 feet from the bay and a rock seawall lining it. Whew! Bike landed 20 to my left and bounced onto the steps of a little cottage, still in 5th gear, wheels still spinning, engine still running. I was on the bike and back on my way up an access road before the wheels had even spun down. Tweaked the pipes and fork tubes a tad but the real damage was to me. When I saw where I had gone over the cliff, it took my bravado away. I had split a less than 10 foot wide gap between a telephone pole and it's wire rope guy wire. Metal guard rail was 8 feet either side and the bike and I found the only two gaps for a quarter mile while on my ass, sliding backwards at 90mph. George will not be riding on the street again any time soon. Racetrack, yeah baby! Public roads, nosiree!!! My body is definitely too old for this, but my mind is not going to listen. I have a click when I walk in the right metatarsal area when a bone knit poorly after an 80mph attempt to walk it off My neck cricks when I turn it from way too many rag-doll flails into the haybales, but I ain't letting any of that stop me. The modern boots, gloves, leathers and safety gear in use now (back protectors, kevlar plate armor with gel cushions, etc...) is way better than the stuff they let us onto the track wth back then. I may not be the fastest thing on the track nowadays, but I will NOT be the slowest!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Bagger Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I'm really happy my epiphany was less dramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I was more than 5 seconds off the pace next time I went onto a track after that spill on the SMR. I didn't run away from racing, but because I was making good money on the road doing tech work, I let it fade away. Time does dull the memory of scrubbing road rash clean with a toothbrush and alchohol, or feeling like every joint on your body was just rapped with a ball peen hammer. Trick is to not be a crasher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 This thread does bring back some fond memories. I had a '76 Kawi 500 2 stroke. Mine looked and sounded like this one except mine was yellow. It got 12 miles to the gallon and ruined both sprokets and chain about every 2000 miles (if I behaved). This clip gives me chills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 SS, that clip got me all hot and bothered. What a sound! Friday I'll be at Infineon, formerly Sears Point, for the first time in 14 years. Brand new slicks, even though the old ones have yet to slide. (I'm still wary of the slippery Sears surface.) I'll see about power-wheelies for the photographer. This morning someone I used to ride and race with died in Oakland commuting to work. Shockingly, it wasn't a hit and run; it was a Coast Guarder in an SUV who killed him. I'm having second thoughts about my street bike. The race track is much safer. Anyway, now that ex-racers George and I are getting back on the track, guess who's next? Hint: Firebird is his local track and he's kind of tall for a 125! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 This thread does bring back some fond memories. I had a '76 Kawi 500 2 stroke. Mine looked and sounded like this one except mine was yellow. It got 12 miles to the gallon and ruined both sprokets and chain about every 2000 miles (if I behaved). This clip gives me chills Those clips and the sound bring back memories of the RG500 I had back 88. It took some getting used to after riding a GSXR750, no low end and all that but once you got it revving man did to go! What does it take $ wise to get into 250 racing if you don't mind my asking? Not that my wife would let me but I did just sell my Cobra replica so she can't say we don't have the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 $3500-$22000 for a bike, which is just the start. Leathers, etc., spares, maintenance, special tools, pit setup, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 I offer my return to racing cost spreadsheet, rev01 as evidence that the motor sports are not cheap. This is a total buy-in from the ground up. The bike I bought is a 2000 TZ125 totally rebuilt and in ready to race condition, but a good low miles mid 90's 250 can be had for similar price if you look well and are patient. I have spared no cost on safety gear and figure you could get there at half what I am paying if you make some compromises, but I will not scrimp on safety and you might as well have some style for the price too Racing_Budget_Rev01.pdf My goal is one season on the 125 and look for the right 250 all the while., then I'll have two GP bikes :-) I have started my own thread on the path back to the track so as not to clutter this one with my comeback story. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=51972&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 This morning someone I used to ride and race with died in Oakland commuting to work. Shockingly, it wasn't a hit and run; it was a Coast Guarder in an SUV who killed him. I'm having second thoughts about my street bike. The race track is much safer. Man, thats a drag. I lost a racing bud to a drunk driver a couple months before I left racing in 78. He got centerpunched by a stop sign runner who was so drunk he never knew he hit anyone I will not ride on the street anymore, why do you think i bought a TZ. Anyway, now that ex-racers George and I are getting back on the track, guess who's next? Hint: Firebird is his local track and he's kind of tall for a 125! Would this person happen to resemble a former world class gunracer we all know, who has some big azz sunflowers in his yard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted August 24, 2007 Author Share Posted August 24, 2007 Pics from Infineon last Friday. I'll post one pic and make it a clickable link... Last weekend was an AFM race meeting and the racers spilled in to the intermediate speed group on the Friday trackday. Being AFM* racers, they passed under yellow flags and ignored the six-foot passing rule. (*A-holes and Fools on Motorcycles) In this on-bike video, starting at about 15:00 I'm following a slower rider trying to find a way to pass when I get passed around the outside of the Carousel (turn 6): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1854461441798447235 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Not too shabby! You definitely had some motor on a lot of the 4stokers, but you spend too much time wallowing around on the outside, way too late. Ifnya' gonna' motor around on the outside, ya' gotta' git out there real early, apex real fast, stand that suckuh' up way early and just motor your way past on whatevah' line is open. That's the racers way! Seriously, you are getting your lunch money taken when you don't stay tight on the corner entrys. Staying right on the racing line holds the backmarkers back where they belong until you can get back on the throttle My bike is due on this coast real soon, my leathers will be done by the 3rd week of Sept. I have almost all my tools and pit supplies together and my AFM # is getting painted on the bike as soon as it's uncrated If you don't tighten up those lines real soon, it'll be AFM #655 scooting by on the outside dude! Btw, That's "Another Fast Mofo" in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Seriously, you are getting your lunch money taken when you don't stay tight on the corner entrys. Staying right on the racing line holds the backmarkers back where they belong until you can get back on the throttle Geoff, the video camera isn't on Erik's bike. At around the 15 minutes make in you can see him passing Erik at the carousel. I though the same thing at first but the sound was too low, sounds like a big twin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 I didn't have the audio on as I was watching it on a laptop while my wife slept. If that isn't Erk, then I forward my comments to that rider instead. Looks like my TZ125 is going to be in my hands before the week is out. BTW Todd, if you are interested, there are several ready to ride 90's TZ250's available back east and out here for mid 5k and up. Also several late model TZ125's available out here and back east for the $5-6k range. If you are interested, I can hook ya' up with my sources. I got a lot of replies to my queries after I found my bike and many of them are still available. If you have $10k plus, there is a great deal on a brand spankin' new 2007 TZ125 that is about as ready to race as something gets. Here is the ad showing it along with a decent TZ250 for $5.5k: http://www.rscycles.com/Bikes/customersbikes/customer.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share Posted August 28, 2007 Spent the weekend with Pacific Track Time at Reno-Fernley Raceway. I dragged more knee Saturday morning than I did in four years racing at Sears Point. (Only on the left; the right smiley-face puck is a virgin!) I'm really getting the hang of the RFR track. When it seemed like I lapped the entire B group, some of which had no business being on the track, I moved to the A group and it was much better. I almost got taken out by some gixxer twit in B. Saturday pics Sunday pics Just for fun, compare these two pictures of me on a TZ250 vs. the Pacific Track Time owner on a GSXR1000, taking the same corner. He raced back when I did many years ago, except he never quit. Erik Michael I'm going back to RFR next weekend (instead of the local USPSA match). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 I'm going back to RFR next weekend (instead of the local USPSA match). I'm thinkin' something similar will be the outcome when the choice comes up for me in the future 3 days to bike, 3 weeks to leathers ;-/ BTW, you are counter-leaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Just for fun, compare these two pictures of me on a TZ250 vs. the Pacific Track Time owner on a GSXR1000, taking the same corner. He raced back when I did many years ago, except he never quit.Erik Michael Looks about the same lean angle for the bike but Michael is trying to drag his elbows With the same lean angle you should be going faster around the corner, I assume he's making his time down the straights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 With the same lean angle you should be going faster around the corner Not necessarily. Corner speed and lean angle do not correlate. Tire patch/compound/freshness, weight distribution, line/apex/turn-in point and how much throttle you have the nerve to keep on/put on are what determine this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 (edited) With the same lean angle you should be going faster around the corner Not necessarily. Corner speed and lean angle do not correlate. Tire patch/compound/freshness, weight distribution, line/apex/turn-in point and how much throttle you have the nerve to keep on/put on are what determine this OK, OK, but in general a shorter wheelbase bike will require less lean angle for the same turning radius as a longer wheelbase bike. Edited August 28, 2007 by TMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Thre TZ250 is not that short a bike really. Corner speed can be higher with less lean angle, or higher with the same lean angle if the rider does his work properly and maximizes weight distro. The dynamics of pushing a race bike through a sweeper with the tires just starting to push is different for every bike and rider combo, even for different riders on ostensily identical bikes. Riding style is a huge factor here too. Take Gary McCoys Speedway influenced riding style for example. Watch some video of him "Backin' It In" to the corners at 100mph + and power sliding out of them like he's on a dirt track for an example of rider influence on corner speed Bike ride height, suspension pre-load and fore/aft weight distribution are actually larger factors in corner speed than lean angle and rake/trail/wheelbase. The biggest factor though is the shifter actuator, or biological input module. The amount of throttle it can "handle" while heeled over is the penultimate arbiter of corner speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted September 4, 2007 Author Share Posted September 4, 2007 Yes it is short: 1328 mm (52.28 in). I've got my axle way back there for as much stability as I can get. Here are some pictures from this weekend. I brought two bikes. Ended up borrowing a third. Saturday TZ250 #6264 shows me making a pass up the inside atop the hoot & holler section. She was my pit neighbor so I made the pass extra-clean by hugging the inside and not drifting wide, which the TZ did without complaint. After that session she said, "You're fast!" and offered me a ride on her 2007 CBR600RR. It was niiiiice. Helluva bike for a diesel. Just outshines and stomps all over the 600s I used to race. I followed this 'tard (as in Supermotard, not f*#ktard, which applies to other riders) for a lap. I don't recommend following 'tards because they take weird lines and back it in to turns, leaving black streaks at the entrances. Sunday TZ250 In the afternoons I hopped on my commuter bike and literally went from the best bike on the track to the worst. (OK, there was a full-dress Beemer touring bike in the noob school but that doesn't count. And well, the Buell is debatable.) I switched from the fast group to the intermediate group. Sunday EX250 I stripped off all the lights, sidestand, centerstand, and swapped the wheels. It has upgraded suspension; the front works well but the rear is the weak point. It doesn't prevent the footpegs (feelers removed) from dragging. It's by far the least powerful bike on the track. So slow that I keep it WFO at the end of the front straight, into the esses, where the 17-year-old air shock causes it to wallow at about 95 mph. Saturday I recognized this guy as a potential shooter. He hung out with ong45, bought a timer and complete holster rig, but not a gun. It was nice having today off work. Stripped the motor for a rebuild. I actually spend about 10x as much time cleaning parts as I do removing, replacing, and rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 She was my pit neighbor so I made the pass extra-clean by hugging the inside and not drifting wide, which the TZ did without complaint. After that session she said, "You're fast!" and offered me a ride on her 2007 CBR600RR. Ok, but was she cute? Com'on you know you guys wanted to ask too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted September 4, 2007 Author Share Posted September 4, 2007 On that subject, much has changed in my long absence from the asphalt. Da wimmins are everywhere! Just a few: http://www.4theriders.com/viewpics.php?loc...7/09.01.07/143/ http://www.4theriders.com/viewpics.php?loc....01.07/8/WHITE/ http://www.4theriders.com/viewpics.php?loc...01.07/CHRISTIE/ http://www.4theriders.com/viewpics.php?loc.../09.01.07/DANI/ http://www.4theriders.com/viewpics.php?loc.../09.01.07/EMMA/ http://www.4theriders.com/pics/trackdays/2...RS/IMG_5447.JPG http://www.4theriders.com/pics/trackdays/2...RS/IMG_7631.JPG http://www.4theriders.com/pics/trackdays/2...MV/IMG_7537.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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