lcarr Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 I just reread all the old topics I could find on weak hand shooting but couldn't find what I was looking for. I've been experimenting for a while with different weak hand techniques. I've always been more comfortable with the "quarter the body and keep the arm fairly straight" method. If I recall correctly, this is what Brian shows in his book. However, Plaxco, Burkett, and a master class friend of mine who serves as my mentor for these types of things all use the "square to the target and fire from your normal stance, just without the strong hand" method. I have tried to give this technique a fair shake. I practice a lot indoors with the "Dot Drill" (2.5" dots at 7yds--if the shot doesn't touch the dot, the string doesn't count), so I do a pretty good amount of weak hand shooting, normally using the quartering method. On the clock, after some practice, the two methods are pretty close. The "squared" method feels MUCH less controlled. It seems like I have a much harder time connecting with the target (a 2.5" dot at 7yds) than with the "quartering" method, but, when I do, the times are comparable. At this point, I think that the problem is that the muscles used for the "squared" technique just aren't as developed as the "quartering" techique. The question is: is it worth it to switch? Is the "squared" method a measurable improvement in competition? Also, are there any subtleties to the "squared" position that I am missing? For example, it felt a little more comfortable and stable to lower my left elbow from where it would be in my freestyle position. Am I on the right track? As an aside, does anybody shoot left-eyed when shooting left handed? For me, when quartering, it feels very natural to do this. I am right eyed, but the dominance does not appear to be very strong. As another aside, strong hand shooting between the "squared" and "quartered" methods does seem to show a big time difference. I am about 0.5sec faster, on average, on the dot drill using the "quartering" method. This may be, though, because that is what I have practiced. Lincoln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 "The "squared" method feels MUCH less controlled. It seems like I have a much harder time connecting with the target (a 2.5" dot at 7yds) than with the "quartering" method, but, when I do, the times are comparable." It seems like you already found what is good for you. Personally I shoot with the "quartering" method just because it is more comforatable for me. If you can connect consistently with a method, use that over a method that will sometimes connect. Some of the time the speed difference isn't worth the risk. The same goes for the aside questions. Shoot what is natural for you. The majority of the top shooters in the game do not shoot the same way. You are not paid by your methods, but by your results. Do what is best for you. (Edited by TheItlianStalion at 11:35 am on Oct. 18, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 I'd work on being familiar with both techniques. Target arrays and or the requirement to change your footwork from your freestyle stance have more to do with what technique is best than what appears faster in training drills. Practice both and just let it happen. P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Most important thing is SLOW DOWN and read the gun. Watch out for trigger jerk, as this is a problem in weak hand only. Most normal freestyle stances will have weak foot forward anyway, so you might be ok freestyle. Quartering is more of an issue for me strong hand only. Either way, dry fire and practice, and you'll grin at weak hand classifiers while your competition whines. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcarr Posted October 18, 2002 Author Share Posted October 18, 2002 Quote: from Phil Dunlop on 1:41 pm on Oct. 18, 2002 I'd work on being familiar with both techniques. Target arrays and or the requirement to change your footwork from your freestyle stance have more to do with what technique is best than what appears faster in training drills. It's interesting that you say this because it is a particular training drill that caused me to re-examine the issue. Back in, I think, June I did some experimenting and decided to stick with "quartering." This week, I set up a drill with 3 2.5" dots at 7 yds. From surrdender, draw and freestyle engage 2 + 2 + 2, reload, right hand only 2 + 2 + 2, reload, left hand only 2 + 2 + 2. I thought that, with twisting my body to get the appropriate shoulder out front, I was using a lot more motion than was necessary. So, I decided to re-evaluate the "squared" approach, which would allow me to keep my upper body in the same position for all three types of shooting. At this point, I still think the "quartering" approach feels better, but can see how the "squared" approach might be better on a course of fire like this. The question was whether I should devote the time to master it, to which I assume you would say, "Yes." Lincoln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Icarr, what prompted my answer was a stage at the recent WS. 9 targets arranged accross the 180*, 1 shot on each whilest (effectively) remaining seated. The first shot was effectively quatering, working to square on, out to 3/4ing! There was no choice P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 "As an aside, does anybody shoot left-eyed when shooting left handed? " Nobody want to reply to this question? I quarter and shoot right eye but after reading this thread I'll start experimenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 I tried that George, practised for hours thinking it kept my wrist more naturally aligned, but gave it up as it always seemed necessary to think my way through it. P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 Hey Phil, I see you're a Kiwi. Are you a Service or IPSC shooter? I assume you meant that you tried quartering and shooting right eye. What solution did you settle on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 Hi George, a welshman living in exile in NZ and totally totally IPSC!! I was experimenting with a with the left eye left hand thing on the bike bringing the cows in! it helps the boredom! I figured that by doing so the wrist remained more naturally aligned and I wouldn't need to cant the gun. Trouble with a strong right eye dominance was the need to squint, and to time the squint as the gun was presented. It was just too much to think about. P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 "As an aside, does anybody shoot left-eyed when shooting left handed?" I do, but then I'm cross-dominant. I also use the left eye when firing right hand only BTW. So I guess technically the answer is yes, I shoot left hand/left eye, but effectively the answer would be no, I don't use the non-master eye when using only the hand on the opposite side of the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 I only got really good at weak hand when I stopped quartering and began facing the target squarely. When quartering I always felt like the shoulder had become "unlocked" from its socket and I had trouble holding the gun still on target. These days I actually don't even quarter when shooting one hand only. With either right or left hand only I bring both feet up parallel with each other. It works for me. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 What's the definiton of quartering? I quarter with my both my shoulders and my feet. Some of the good shooters in our club have their feet square with the target but quarter their upper body by pushing their gun arm forward as far as possible. Seems to work for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcarr Posted October 22, 2002 Author Share Posted October 22, 2002 Quote: from George D on 4:13 pm on Oct. 21, 2002 What's the definiton of quartering? I quarter with my both my shoulders and my feet. Some of the good shooters in our club have their feet square with the target but quarter their upper body by pushing their gun arm forward as far as possible. Seems to work for them. I guess I do both. :^) If I am shooting a left hand only string, I quarter the entire body, including the feet. When shooting, quartering the feet seems faster because I feel like my whole body is handling the recoil, like shooting a shotgun or a machine gun from a good stance. However, when attempting the drill I described above, for the most part I've been leaving my feet in my freestyle position and just moving the upper body. Like freestyle, I guess there's a "preferred" position for the feet, but that position isn't essential. Lincoln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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