"lettered" Cci Primers

[David Sinko]

My department buys large quantities of Speer .40 S&W "Lawman" 180 gr. RNFP and 180 gr. Gold Dot HP. For a few years now I have noticed that the primers on the 180 gr. RNFP are stamped with what appears to be the letters "CF" but the GDHP does not have any such markings. Does anybody know the reason for this? I buy CCI large rifle primers and have never seen this but I do not use their pistol primers. I was told that they made some "bad" primers and that these are marked accordingly because they are "good." I'm not sure if I should believe that.

Dave Sinko

[SLM]

I've never seen the "CF" marking but I've seen an "A" on them. There is some truth to the "bad" primer story. I can't remember all the details but there was a lot of ammo that didn't meet some specification in some contract. It was reclassified as training and sold in bulk. Ammoman.com had a lot of it for a while but I think it's all gone.

[revchuck]

Dave - I've got some Blazer "Clean Fire" .38 Special ammo with the CF on the primer. I think it's a way of identifying the Clean Fire primers.

[Intel6]

I also have seen their match rifle primers stamped for identification.

Neal in AZ

[Carlos]

"CF" does seem to correspond with "Clean Fire."

BE WARNED: the clean fire ammo was used in bulk by a law enforcement group at our range prior to the range burning down. All of the bulk boxes were clearly marked from the factory: "USE BY 2008"

-clean fire primers have a limited "shelf life" after which some of them will fail to fire. Given enough time, they will mostly become inert.

-regular lead styphnate primers last virtually a lifetime or more.

[revchuck]

-clean fire primers have a limited "shelf life" after which some of them will fail to fire.

Yup. I've had a couple go click on me, and one of those went click in three different revolvers. They're now my "use before all other practice ammo" practice ammo.

[David Sinko]

This is all very interesting. I had heard rumors about primers that go sour within a certain amount of time. But one or two years? That's ridiculous. I can't see anybody who seriously cares about the performance of his ammo giving this stuff any consideration at all. Only a desperate, big city police department on the verge of bankruptcy and state take-over (hint: Allentown, PA) could possibly be interested in this stuff, and then only at a big discount. As far as I know, we have never experienced any misfires. But this stuff really does burn clean. The brass looks pristine after it's fired, and then they recycle it as scrap. And it isn't even Glocked!

Dave Sinko

[G-ManBart]

This is all very interesting. I had heard rumors about primers that go sour within a certain amount of time. But one or two years? That's ridiculous. I can't see anybody who seriously cares about the performance of his ammo giving this stuff any consideration at all. Only a desperate, big city police department on the verge of bankruptcy and state take-over (hint: Allentown, PA) could possibly be interested in this stuff, and then only at a big discount. As far as I know, we have never experienced any misfires. But this stuff really does burn clean. The brass looks pristine after it's fired, and then they recycle it as scrap. And it isn't even Glocked!

Dave Sinko

Dave,

They don't use them to save money. In many cases the lead free stuff costs more than something like the Winchester Ranger ammo they sell in bulk to many departments for training. They use them because they're trying to limit lead exposure. Most people aren't aware that most of the lead that gets into your blood stream from shooting comes from the primer...not from exposed lead on the bullet. Normal primers use lead styphnate as the active component. When the primer goes off it puts that lead into a state that you can breath in, and it will go straight through your lungs and is absorbed into your blood stream...it's like a lead vaporizer of sorts. Clean fire type primers eliminate this.

If you add a total metal jacket to the package there's basically no lead exposure risk at all. Sure, the bullets hitting the backstop might put out a tiny bit of lead, but it's far enough away that it's not a big deal. Lead chunks flying around aren't in a state that can easily get into your blood stream...well unless you rub them on a cut or something!

The one downside is that the lead-free primers aren't as reliable, even when new, and don't have a long shelf life. In reality, most agencies/departments are going to use ammo before it gets old enough to become a big problem. If they give it out for practice, then some of it might end up being pretty old before it gets shot, but that's a minor concern, I'd think. I know that any time we shoot indoors we're given ammo that's lead free and has frangible bullets, and that stuff is even more expensive than normal lead-free according to my boss who was a firearms instructor at the academy for several years. Funny thing is he swears it the most accurate factory ammo out of his G-34, which suprised me.

[David Sinko]

This still doesn't make sense to me. My department has a proven track record of jeopardizing our safety in order to save a few pennies, literally. I simply can not believe that our department paid any amount of extra money so that we may ultimately live longer and healthier and therefore continue to drain the city's pension fund. It is possible that they bought this stuff as it was on the verge of expiring and then bought it at a significant discount. Lately we have been having "weekly practice sessions," which didn't make sense to me because previously they refused to burn up any ammo for such a meaningless endeavor like practice. This is twisted logic to be sure, but then it's a twisted city.

Factory ammo aside, do they sell this stuff as a reloading component? I don't think anybody would be interested in it. Some of the local indoor ranges don't allow cast bullets to be used but I am not aware of any primer restrictions.

Dave Sinko

[SLM]

I haven't found the primers but if you wanted to get away from cast, jacketed, etc., Frangible Bullets sells the sintered bullets. They're expensive but available!

[Carlos]

This still doesn't make sense to me. My department has a proven track record of jeopardizing our safety in order to save a few pennies, literally. I simply can not believe that our department paid any amount of extra money so that we may ultimately live longer and healthier and therefore continue to drain the city's pension fund. It is possible that they bought this stuff as it was on the verge of expiring and then bought it at a significant discount. Lately we have been having "weekly practice sessions," which didn't make sense to me because previously they refused to burn up any ammo for such a meaningless endeavor like practice. This is twisted logic to be sure, but then it's a twisted city.

Factory ammo aside, do they sell this stuff as a reloading component? I don't think anybody would be interested in it. Some of the local indoor ranges don't allow cast bullets to be used but I am not aware of any primer restrictions.

Dave Sinko

The agency in question is a federal agency. I imagine they have plenty of homeland security money.

Ammo was Speer in .357 Sig. Dunno what their carry load is.

I asked a rep from Sig Arms about lead free ammo since they have a "lead free" range at their facility. The ammo I asked about was marked "Use by 2008" and I saw it in 2004. The rep stated that while most of the ammo would probably still work in 4 years, that there would typically be some misfires or duds beginning 4 years after manufacture, and that it would get worse as time goes on. A misfire in training would not be a big deal. But would you feel comfortable w/ the idea that "most of my self defense/ CCW ammo will probably work." ?

If lead-free primers are ever mandated for civilians, it will be a bad thing.