Shooting A .308 Major Pf Gun Vs. A .223 Minor Pf Gun In Limited

[TommiF]

the shopping for divisions really has me concerned, but i also really wanted to come to the match.

hopefully someday soon ill get over.

trapr

Trapr,

IPSC Tournaments should be done restricked. Like US 3gun matches. For excample, some 3gun divisions:

STD, all guns standard

OPEN, all guns open

TACTICAL, rifle open, other guns standard

PRODUCTION, handgun PD, other guns standard.

Mayby someday we'll get this kind of match, until then, we have to play by tournament rulebook, which allows division shopping.

Just my 2 eurocents

Tommi

Edited April 15, 2007 by TommiF

[tverho]

Hi again. To make myself more clear, major is a big no-no even with our long distance papers. I tried to say that it is even less wortwhile with an iron sighted gun.

As for division shopping: I wanted to shoot the tournament completely in standard but might have to try open shotgunning to get myself into open tournament class. This because open class will have all the other good shooters and about three times more of them. I'd just rather be third in a contested class than first in a class with no real opponents..

t tommi

[kurtm]

If that is the case TVERHO why were you going to shoot in standard in the first place if you weren't "division shopping in the first place?? KURT MILLER

[tverho]

Because I like shooting an iron sighted rifle much more -> standard

Because I only have a standard pistol -> standard

Because I only have a standard shotgun -> standard

According to the rules I can not participate in tournament open class if none of my division classes are open.

ergo

I can shoot in open class with my iron sighted rifle, but this makes no sense to me.

I can shoot open with my standard pistol, makes no sense

I can shoot open with my standard shotgun, ok I loose some points with my low cartridge capacity but what the heck

In my opinion the IPSC Tournament rules suck.

STD, all guns standard

OPEN, all guns open

TACTICAL, rifle open, other guns standard

PRODUCTION, handgun PD, other guns standard.

would be MUCH better and the divisions would have more even participation numbers as well. As for now tournament open class will suck in about 70-80% of the competitors making the other divisions less interesting.

[richardschennberg]

If you have more 200+ yard targets than close targets, the likelyhood of non-A hits makes major PF worth considering. .308 has the most and cheapest available ammo, but the most recoil. .260 REM has the least recoil and great balistics, but you will almost certainly have to load your own ammo. 7mm-08 has some factory ammo available but you would save a lot by reloading.

On the other hand, if you expect all of the targets to be 150 yards or less, 7.62x39 with 154 grain bullets might work. Make sure you chrono your gun with your ammo, as it either barely makes or misses major PF.

IMO if you are going to a match with a balance of close and far targets, or if you want one caliber for all of your 3-gun shooting, .223/5.56mm still rules.

[kurtm]

AHHH a fellow iron sight lover! I couldn't agree more with your post. Now all we have to do is get the IPSC board to recognise the principals you layed forth. I really don't care if it is in the tournament style or multi-gun style, but open is open and standard is standard...etc. Right on you iron man you! KURTM

[Chills1994]

"Shopping for divisions?"

Could someone explain that to me?

Is that trying to figure out ahead of time, before sending in your match application and money, who your competition is going to be in each division and then signing up for the least competitive division?

Much grass!

Edited April 14, 2007 by Chills1994

[kurtm]

Chills you have got it right on the money!

And it helps if you know the guys that are good and in which division, and when it comes to Europe I really don't know. I know some of the rifle guys and good amount of the shotgun guys, but when it comes to pistol I haven't a clue. That is why I was hesitant. It is like playing against a stacked deck. Sorry for the thread drift! KURTM

[Sako92S]

Chills you have got it right on the money!

And it helps if you know the guys that are good and in which division, and when it comes to Europe I really don't know. I know some of the rifle guys and good amount of the shotgun guys, but when it comes to pistol I haven't a clue. That is why I was hesitant. It is like playing against a stacked deck. Sorry for the thread drift! KURTM

Does it really matter if you know your opponent skills upfront or not?

For example I'm going to shoot 3gun in CZ. I don't know a $hit about other shooters skills but it doesn't matter. I know only my coutrymen skills and they are good. Like Raine and Mika who are going to participate the same match. I'm just trying to make my best at that match.

If you want to know Finnish shooters pistol skills you can always take a look WS and European Championship records.

[kurtm]

Major thread drift alert!!

Say I am a really good rifle shooter, and know I'm okay with a shotgun, and less okay with a pistol, and I know all the "big dogs" are going to shoot in Standard pistol, and I know I can do really well against the Production shooters, I am going to enter Production Now production would still be considered Standard as far as the 3-gun Tournament is concerned, Now I know I can't beat the Standard SEMI-AUTO shotgun shooter, BUT I can beat the Standard Pump shooter by a big margin, I am going to sign up in Standard Pump, which is also considered STANDARD for the 3-gun tournament. So lets see I can now win standard over the better shooters, by selecting the divisions I shoot in.

This is EXACTLY the E-Mail I recieved from a Finnish shooter, so please tell me how this "doesn't matter as to the skill of the shooters" I compete against?? TVERHO has it right! and untill that is recognised in IPSC I guess you won't be seeing many U.S. 3-gunners. KURTM

[Sako92S]

Kurt

If you want to know which shooter shoots in certain division here is the list of participants of that match:

http://www.ssgpractical.fi/readarticle.php?article_id=45

If you want to know which shooters have lets say for example M classification in pistol, rifle, shotgun ranking you can read our ranking list here:

http://tarha.ipscfin.net/exports/ranking.pdf

I hope Carl Carbon can share his experiences i n this forum of Finnish 3gun match if he will participate.