Single Stage Vs Progressive .223

[3gunnah]

I have loaded .223 for volume on my 650 dillon for a while. But a friend has asked me to help him with some precision loads. This is an area where I have less experance. What should be done diffrently. Also what powders and/or primers do you guys recomend. 60grn V-max bullet. Thanks alot.

Edited March 11, 2007 by 3gunnah

[ShooterSteve]

There are a lot of steps you can take to get better accuracy for shooting a 223. The question you have to ask is how accurate is the rifle. It will do no good to spend a ton of time reloading to a varmint or bench rest level of accuracy if the rifle won't do it's part.

What is the barrel twist and how heavy of a bullet do you want to shoot? The varmint rifle that I had, used a Hart barrel with a 15 twist. Would shoot like the dickens up to 52gr. Go to 53gr or anything bigger, and the bullets wouldn't group. My groups would open up from dime size to buckshot pattern size at 100yds. This gun also loved 27 gr of H335 but don't start with that load as it is pretty stinkin hot.

Fireform your brass

Deburr your flash holes

Square your primer pockets

Use an accurate powder measure

Set your bullet depth to the lands. You can use a Stoney Point guage to get them on the lands to start with, then at the range, keep shooting five shot groups, seating the bullet 5 thousandths deeper with each group. You will see where the groups will shrink, and then start to open back up, so you will know what depth to stick with.

Use Wilson dies and an arbor press. Use a mic to measure the seating die, and you can literally set it accurately to a thousandth of an inch. If you shoot a match bullet and it likes one depth, write the measurement on the side of the die box, varmint bullets like another, write it on the box, and in 20 seconds you can adjust your die to the bullet you are loading for

Do all of this, spend days figuring all of this stuff out, and then shoot it in your AR and spew all of this brass out in the weeds never to be seen again!

I highly recommend that you contact Sinclair Inc. They have a book that they put out themselves strictly on loading for bench rest accuracy. It only costs aobut $12 and is worth every penny. Buy it, study it, and then decide how much time and money you can put into the effort based on the rifle and equipment that you have. Good luck!

[George]

If you want more accuracy in the rifle ammo you are making on the 650, just do two things at first.

1. Sort brass by headstamp and then weigh it all and throw out any that vary widely.

2. Trim all cases after sizing on a single stage, then run them through the progressive without a size die, or with the sizer backed out so only the expander ball goes in/out (this cleans up case mouth dents).

Trimming and sorting brass by weight eliminates two of the biggest loss of accuracy areas you can address in preparing accurate rifle ammo, after that, it's all rat's azz stuff and these two items alone will give you tighter ammo than ever before if you aren't doing them.

Charge weight variances are nothing to even worry abbout if you ARE NOT weighing and sorting your brass in the first place. Internal case volume variances are the biggest overlooked area by the novice loader trying to make accurate rifle ammo.

The mechanical hassle of doing quality case prep (trimming etc..) is the next big hurdle to get past.

A progressive is NOT inherently incapable of making accurate rifle ammo, you just need to understand where the gross variances are and eliminate them. The gross variances are NOT in the progressive itself, they are just not being addressed by the typical progressive loading process. Case prep is where you start and these things are done prior to the press process.

BTW, adding a Redding Micrometer seating die to a progressive press helps seat match grade bullets with less upset as they enter the case mouth.

I would also look at investing in a Giraud, or Gracey power trimmer to handle the trimming before loading the prepped cases on the progressive. These devices are the shiznit for producing accurate ammo.

After this, the next area to look at would be to add more case prep steps that are also done off the progressive as separate steps. Look into neck shaving and primer pocket/flash hole uniforming. These are also worthwhile steps to do ifn'ya want downrange accuracy.

[Joe4d]

I basically gave up on .223, my other rifles .243 up to 45/70 I can usually find a sweet spot plying with OAL, Granted my .223 isnt great but when I ought it I also bought a few ammo cans of surplus 55 gr ball ammo, some of it with greenish brass and My Mini 14 shoots it so well 1.5" at 100 meters from mechanical rest, I began to wonder about all the negative acuracy comments I heard about Mini 14's figured I could really get it to shoot with reloads, I have done all of the above weighing brass each powder charge, even seperating bullets by weight and OAL and to this day have never even come close to equaling 55 gr surplus ammo.

[George]

I basically gave up on .223, my other rifles .243 up to 45/70 I can usually find a sweet spot plying with OAL, Granted my .223 isnt great but when I ought it I also bought a few ammo cans of surplus 55 gr ball ammo, some of it with greenish brass and My Mini 14 shoots it so well 1.5" at 100 meters from mechanical rest, I began to wonder about all the negative acuracy comments I heard about Mini 14's figured I could really get it to shoot with reloads, I have done all of the above weighing brass each powder charge, even seperating bullets by weight and OAL and to this day have never even come close to equaling 55 gr surplus ammo.

DO NOT assume anything from using a Mini-14 for an accuracy test.

There is nothing that will ever help a mini get under, or even near the 1.5 MOA results you were getting except luck and you already had that in spades with the surplus stuff grouping like it did.

The mini-14 platform, right out of the box, unless re-built with a real bbl and an action job is about the worst test gun for accuracy you could use to make a sweeping judgement like that.

I cannot count on all ten fingers the specific points that address the why's of something like this and what you are overlooking. Not good testing procedure. Kinda' like using an old teaspoon to perform labratory grade fluid measurements ;-)

[3gunnah]

Thanks for all the info it helped alot!!

Edited April 15, 2007 by 3gunnah