JDBraddy Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) Recently bought a used open gun in .38 SuperComp, and this sucker is LOUD!!! My ears ring even with plugs in, so I'm considering getting a pair of ear muffs to double plug. Any particular models that most of you like better than the rest? Edited February 16, 2007 by JDBraddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...+Ear+protection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I use custom molded plugs with the Peltor small muffs. They fold up into a small package, maybe the shotgunner model. It looks like your new toy is a Hybrid, that makes the thing almost as loud as my XP100 in 250 Savage, Ackley Improved!! Get the muffs soon...save your hearing as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) I am a HUGE fan of double plugging...particularly when shooting indoors. I use Radians plugs and Radians muffs. Both are inexpensive and no-frills, but they do an excellent job keeping even the loudest Open guns from damaging my hearing. Forgot to add: Nice heater JD! Edited February 16, 2007 by Pharaoh Bender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) Recently bought a used open gun in .38 SuperComp, and this sucker is LOUD!!! My ears ring even with plugs in, so I'm considering getting a pair of ear muffs to double plug. Any particular models that most of you like better than the rest? Even if your ears didn't ring with just plugs in, wearing muffs is a good idea. The pressure from the gun going off gets transmitted through the soft tissue behind/below your ear directly into the small bones of the middle ear. I'm no doctor, but I guess it's one part loud sound and one part pressure that causes most of the problems. Plugs only work on part of the problem. With compensated guns being so loud and producing so much pressure on your face/head, muffs over plugs are a really smart idea. Edited February 17, 2007 by G-ManBart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranDoc Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Even if your ears didn't ring with just plugs in, wearing muffs is a good idea. The pressure from the gun going off gets transmitted through the soft tissue behind/below your ear directly into the small bones of the inner ear. That alone will cause a hearing loss that can't be corrected. I'm no doctor, but I guess it's one part loud sound and one part pressure that causes most of the problems. Plugs only work on half of the problem. With compensated guns being so loud and producing so much pressure on your face/head, muffs are a really smart idea. Loud noise damages the hair cells inside the ear. [Ear has 2 components: cochlea which senses sound, and the vestibular apparatus which senses angular acceleration/position/motion). I use Advanced Hearing Protection electronic muffs. The new MSA Sordin muff specs look very impressive (and pricey!). I haven't field-trialed them yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) Even if your ears didn't ring with just plugs in, wearing muffs is a good idea. The pressure from the gun going off gets transmitted through the soft tissue behind/below your ear directly into the small bones of the inner ear. That alone will cause a hearing loss that can't be corrected. I'm no doctor, but I guess it's one part loud sound and one part pressure that causes most of the problems. Plugs only work on half of the problem. With compensated guns being so loud and producing so much pressure on your face/head, muffs are a really smart idea. Loud noise damages the hair cells inside the ear. [Ear has 2 components: cochlea which senses sound, and the vestibular apparatus which senses angular acceleration/position/motion). I use Advanced Hearing Protection electronic muffs. The new MSA Sordin muff specs look very impressive (and pricey!). I haven't field-trialed them yet. I'm not in disagreement, but maybe you can clear something up for me/us. A few years back I read an article that said plugs alone weren't the best solution. The article went on to say that with just plugs, pressure from the gun going off was transmitted to the small bones of the middle ear through the soft tissue behind and below the ear and caused them to break down in a similar fashion to...think it's otolersclerosis (spelling?). Does that sound right to you? The article pretty much said that plugs protected you from damage to the hair cells and muffs protected you from damage to the hair cells as well as the middle ear bones, so muffs alone were better than plugs alone, but both was the best solution. Any clarification would be appreciated. I typically wear muffs when shooting outside with non-compensated guns and wear both plugs (molded style) and muffs when shooting indoors or with a compensated gun outside. Thanks! Edited February 17, 2007 by G-ManBart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranDoc Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I'm not in disagreement, but maybe you can clear something up for me/us. A few years back I read an article that said plugs alone weren't the best solution. The article went on to say that with just plugs, pressure from the gun going off was transmitted to the small bones of the middle ear through the soft tissue behind and below the ear and caused them to break down in a similar fashion to...think it's otolersclerosis (spelling?). Does that sound right to you? The article pretty much said that plugs protected you from damage to the hair cells and muffs protected you from damage to the hair cells as well as the middle ear bones, so muffs alone were better than plugs alone, but both was the best solution. Any clarification would be appreciated. I typically wear muffs when shooting outside with non-compensated guns and wear both plugs (molded style) and muffs when shooting indoors or with a compensated gun outside. Thanks! Otoschlerosis = literally 'hardening' of the ears. There are 3 bones in the middle ear that conduct sound from the ear drum to the fluid-filled cochlea (coke-lee-uh) of the inner ear. This conducts sounds via the 8th cranial nerve to the brain. Like most bone-to-bone connections, they get less 'flexible' as we age. Otoschlerosis is generally an age-related stiffening of the connection between those three bones. Thus, the way they transmit sound changes and hearing becomes less acute. Repetitive exposure to loud noises -- firearms, industrial noise, artillery, etc -- damages the hair cells within the cochlea and that can lead to hearing loss without (or before) otoschlerosis is evdent. That's what I can give you off the top of my head. If there's an audiologist or ENT surgeon somewhere on this Forum, they can likely provide more detail. Anything that muffles the sound pressure impacting on the ear drum should help protect hearing. The three bones of the middle ear conduct sound vibrations as above, they don't conduct to the bones or soft tissue behind/surrounding the ear. I'm not familiar with high pressures impacting the area behind/around the ears causing hearing loss. Actually there's very little soft tissue there, mostly just skin and a little subcutaneous fat overlying bone. There are the mastoid air cells below/behind the external ear. Those are subject to damage either via infection or direct trauma (baseball bat striking behind the ear -- sorry, I worked ER too long). A major muscle (masseter) connects in front of the ear. It's used in chewing. The posterior neck muscles (allow you to extend, rotate, and flex your head side-to-side) connect to the bony ridge at the back of your head, behind the ear. The sterno-cleido-mastoid (SCM) muscle - the one that comes off the collarbone and wraps diagonally around either side of your neck and allows you to rotate your head side-to-side - attaches to the mastoid bone behind/below the ear. [Anatomy 101 now in 'OFF' mode]. I'll see what I can dig out for a reasonably understandable discussion of noise-induced hearing loss and, when I find something decent, I'll post a link here. In the interim, WebMD.com usually has reasonably intelligible info, or search 'noise-induced hearing loss'. (Watch out for any site that has something to sell or an ax to grind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranDoc Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) Resources for info on hearing loss and use of hearing protection: I did a quick web search using 'noise induced hearing loss' (all four words as a single phrase). Found good information from CDC/NIOSH (Centers for Disease Control & Prevention/National Institute for Occupational Health & Safety) and the National Institute on Deafness & Other Communication Disorders (I believe I have that name right) . There are academic and practical discussions on hearing loss, ear injuries/diseases, various forms of hearing protection, etc. Some specifically mention hearing protection for shooting sports. There were a few other medical sites that had consumer/patient data that was pretty understandable. I didn't see any references to sound pressure on the bony/soft tissues behind the ear causing hearing loss. If you can find some citation for the article that's been mentioned in this thread, I'd be happy to dig for it and review it if found. There are tests for hearing loss that involve placing a vibrating tuning fork both just outside the opening to the external ear and then touching it to the bone behind the ear. Bone conduction > air conduction indicates a certain type of hearing loss (I'd have to review old notes before discussing that one further). Another cause of hearing loss that hasn't been mentioned is barotrauma to the ear -- high pressure causing eardrum rupture that interferes with the transmission of sound pressure waves between the eardrum and middle ear. I've seen this in divers that change depth too quickly and in people exposed to shock waves from high-pressure sound (concussive shock waves from explosions). Ear plugs won't help divers but they're useful for people exposed to explosions, artillery fire, industrial impact noise, etc. Depending upon extent, perforated eardrums can spontaneously heal. Cochlear hair cells can recover somewhat from temporary exposure to loud/high-pressure noise. Once a hair cell sustains permanent damage, that's it .... Edited February 17, 2007 by FranDoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I'll have to come back and read all that... If it hasn't been mentioned, sound is conducted thru things other than the air. Bone does so. Open shooters should keep their mouths shut whil shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Thanks FranDoc, I'll try and see if I can dig up the article I'm thinking about. It was a few years ago, but sure made sense at the time. If I find anything I'll post it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Man Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I'll have to come back and read all that...If it hasn't been mentioned, sound is conducted thru things other than the air. Bone does so. Open shooters should keep their mouths shut whil shooting. Peed my pants too! FM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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