Confused People, Score Sheets, And Post Match Scoring

[Vlad]

You bum!

[Scott R]

Bruce,

Thanks for all of the time you spent explaining the reasoning in your answer. As I now understand and agree with the method you used to satisfy the rule pertaining to this situation.

I guess the difficulty in accepting this answer is that in this instance a group of shooters have come nowhere near satisfying the requirements of the course of fire as spelled out in the WSB. And because the RO was just as negligent, the end result is that their hit factors probably won't suffer at all.

[bgary]

Their hit factors will suffer some. They shot 33% fewer points, and I doubt they were able to do it in 33% fewer seconds, so at the end of the day my bet is that nobody "moved up" in the standings as a results of not shooting enough rounds.

If anyone got donked in the standings, it would be the people who shot it wrong, and their scorecards *did* get caught during the match. More than likely, those people zero'd the stage.

If some people got "caught" and scored with Mikes during the match, and other people did *not* get caught (and got NPMs after the match), *that* would represent enough of a competitive inequity to toss the stage, IMHO, but - again - that's an RM call, not a "how do you score it in stats" question...

B

[Flexmoney]

..but where does that leave me with an experienced stats person like yourself and John Amidon disagreeing?

What you are getting here is two perspectives...

I've had a chance to thing this over some more. Here is my perspective.

A good stats official is going to do just what Bruce ha suggested. They have some blinders on, and can only deal with what they are presented.

However, handing this back to the Range Master...the RM could still pursue a correction, up until the point that the match is complete. (When is the match complete? One hour after posting scores?)

On corrections...from what has been said, this isn't a case of uncertainty. It would be up to the RM, but it sounds like there is more than enough evidence here. We know exactly what happened and who all it happened too.

Have the scores been posted yet? If not, I'm thinking the match isn't over. Therefore, corrections could be made under 9.7.2-9.7.4 (...with the exception of the mutual consent of the competitor and the signatory RangeOfficer, or due to an arbitration decision...).

[interesting that an arb might be appropriate here...]

Hand it to the RM. The RM ought to be able to get consent from the shooters to own up to what they did.

All that consent...get their misses.

Those that don't...well, they'd get the NPM's under 9.7.6.2. In which case, the stage should get arb'ed by a 3rd party...which should arb for the corrections and/or tossing the stage...

[Jim Norman]

Guys,

Keep in mind, we are talking about a club match here. It is set up,shot and torn down in one day. The stats guy desn't ususally get tot he sheets untill after the match is torn down and better than half the people are gone. Scores are usually done at noght and posted the next day.

This is real world. I would like to run stats during the match, but with a remote location, no power and noone that wants to do stats as opposed to shooting the match.

We'd look into the Paln system, but $3500 is just too much.

Jim

[Liota]

Gehntlemen,

You all are forgetting that the scoring problem was noticed while the squad was shooting the stage.

"first 7 of the 9 shooters only shot 2 shots per target"

The competitors should have gotten the MD involved. They knew better, but didn't act accordingly.

I don't think NPMs are the "right" answer, even though they may be correct.

v/r,

Liota

[richardschennberg]

EZ win score you have to go back and Modify the stage discription to have no penality mikes. I give them ALL the MIKES or ALL the PROCEDURALS for not shooting the Correct amount. After the match, No way to Have them reshoot it, I'd throw out the stage. score everyone on the remaining stages. It is an advantage, big time, not to get the Mikes much less faster time on top of it. seen this a million times, it was follow the leader. he shot two so that must be the way to do it.

1. For the shooters with only two hits scored per target, you can't award misses because you can't distinguish a shooting error from a scoring error. It is wrong to assume a miss when none is marked on the score sheet because it is against USPSA/IPSC rules. A reshoot solves this problem.

2. If too many shooters have left for the day and there are a significant number in both types of suspect score sheets (two hits only vs. two hits and a Mike), throwing out the state is probably the best solution.