dixiehacker Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I was thinking about getting into ICORE, and I was working up a heavy .38 but not quite .357 load for my S&W 19 and Ruger GP100. I wanted to be sure to get the minimum power factor for my first match. I have a bunch of 800x powder sitting around, and decided to get rid of that. Since both guns were .357, I decided to load 38s with 158 grain LSWC's over 7.0 grains and remington # 1.5 primers. This was well below the 8.9 grains given for .357 in the IMR reloaders guide, but above the 5.9 given for 38s. The rounds worked great in the GP100, but in the S&W, on the second cylinder, I noticed a flash coming out of the rear. I immediately stopped shooting and opened the cylinder to find a primer that had a big black hole in it. Do you guys think there is a problem with the firing pin on my 19, or should I switch to magnum primers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I would choose magnum primers for their toughness. You'll need to back off your load and re-work if you switch to magnum primers. Unless you're sitting on a large amount of .38 brass, you might as well use .357 brass for the extra thick casehead too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Doesn't ICORE have some rule that for 38 spl you can use certain factory loads and not have to worry about PF ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 i had the same troubles with pierced primers in my glock when i tried remingtons... switch to federal 200s and be happy harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixiehacker Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 Doesn't ICORE have some rule that for 38 spl you can use certain factory loads and not have to worry about PF ? They do, if you use Remington UMW or WWB. I just happen to have about 5000 pieces of 38 brass sitting around, and a couple of pounds of 800x powder left over from when I had time to do international trap. I guess I will just switch to magnum primers., and perhaps take my load down a half a grain. Thanks, everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscbob Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Did you shoot these over a chronograph yet? Sounds like a really hot load for 38sp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixiehacker Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 Did you shoot these over a chronograph yet? Sounds like a really hot load for 38sp. It is a hot load, and no, I haven't chronoed it yet. I don't have one, yet. I just wanted to be sure these loads would definately be ok. If I chrono them, and they are way over, which they probably will be, I will back the load off a little. Also, I am shooting them out of a .357, so they will be way below what the gun can take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 federal primers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixiehacker Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 federal primers! Can standard federal primers hold more pressure than the remingtons, or do you mean federal magnums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10mmdave Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Okay, gotta add my 2 pennies here............ 1: your a whole grain over published specs, if you loaded to what the IMR web site shows for 800X that would have been 5.9 grns and would have given you a pf around 139, more than enough for ICORE. 2: if you switch to a Magnum primer things could get worse !! I can only speak for Federal mag and std primers but the mag primers boost everything up in my data. 3: If you going to play with non-published data you really need access to a chronograph, i have no experiance with IMR 800X but it sounds like yer flirtin with disaster ! 4: Since you don't have a chrono do a search or ask more questions here, better to wait than damage your gun or yourself !! (how many blown primers have you had with store bought stuff ??) Now these are just my opinons, do what you want, but let me know if your shooting the IRC next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscbob Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Did you shoot these over a chronograph yet? Sounds like a really hot load for 38sp. It is a hot load, and no, I haven't chronoed it yet. I don't have one, yet. I just wanted to be sure these loads would definately be ok. If I chrono them, and they are way over, which they probably will be, I will back the load off a little. Also, I am shooting them out of a .357, so they will be way below what the gun can take. That is my point . If you haven't shot them over a chrono, then you can't be sure that they are OK. I would not advise you to shoot any more of this load regardless of the type or brand of primer until you can chrono them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 ive had remington primers let go with 2.7 grains of bullseye and a 148 wadcutter in a 38....the primers are terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixiehacker Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 Did you shoot these over a chronograph yet? Sounds like a really hot load for 38sp. It is a hot load, and no, I haven't chronoed it yet. I don't have one, yet. I just wanted to be sure these loads would definately be ok. If I chrono them, and they are way over, which they probably will be, I will back the load off a little. Also, I am shooting them out of a .357, so they will be way below what the gun can take. That is my point . If you haven't shot them over a chrono, then you can't be sure that they are OK. I would not advise you to shoot any more of this load regardless of the type or brand of primer until you can chrono them. ISPCBob and 10MMDave, your points are taken. I am not planning on playing with those loads any more. I think I will buy myself a chrono for Christmas, and perhaps buy factory UMC stuff for the first match I go to. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10mmdave Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 ISPCBob and 10MMDave, your points are taken. I am not planning on playing with those loads any more. I think I will buy myself a chrono for Christmas, and perhaps buy factory UMC stuff for the first match I go to.Thanks That's a fine idea DH, but you could still use some other reloads, just don't go above the published data. Oh ..... and JM won the IRC one year using store bought 158 Remington's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 (edited) I was thinking about getting into ICORE, and I was working up a heavy .38 but not quite .357 load for my S&W 19 and Ruger GP100. I wanted to be sure to get the minimum power factor for my first match. I have a bunch of 800x powder sitting around, and decided to get rid of that. Since both guns were .357, I decided to load 38s with 158 grain LSWC's over 7.0 grains and remington # 1.5 primers. This was well below the 8.9 grains given for .357 in the IMR reloaders guide, but above the 5.9 given for 38s.The rounds worked great in the GP100, but in the S&W, on the second cylinder, I noticed a flash coming out of the rear. I immediately stopped shooting and opened the cylinder to find a primer that had a big black hole in it. Do you guys think there is a problem with the firing pin on my 19, or should I switch to magnum primers? My recall is the Smith has a "hammer nose" type firing pin and the Ruger has a floating FP within the frame which is struct by the hammer. Perhaps the FP protrusion was just greater or the cylinder to frame tolerance was tighter on the Smith. The problem is not the primers, it's the pressure! FWIW the Ruger is a stronger gun than the S&W K frame Model 19. If you want to load above spec ammo starting high without a chrono then I would use the stronger of the two guns until you realize what is going on. A better idea is start lower and use a chrono and work up. Buy/borrow a chrono and loading manual. You are treading in very dangerous territory and likely near the edge. Take the S&W, open the cylinder. Locate any chamber and notice that the notch in the cylinder where the cylinder stop inserts is right over a charge hole. Then notice how "thin" the cylinder wall is at that location! Be safe, MJ Edited November 13, 2006 by Allgoodhits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Also remember that the 38 spl is a shorter case and so will have a smaller volume. The smaller volume can increase the pressure and give you a problem when the same load in a 357 case is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 It appears to me that your load is too hot for the 38 Special case. try using the same load in the 357 mag case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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