Lapua Brass Vs Winchester, Is It Worth It Part Ii

[Malak]

Okay... I have done a fairly intense examination of Lapua brass verses Winchester Brass.

Here is the set up for the comparison:

First, unprepped Winchester brass cannot be compared to unprepped Lapua brass, it would be a pretty worthless comparison. So, I compared UNPREPPED Lapua brass to prepped winchester brass.

The Winchester brass was prepped as follows:

1. Trimmed to 2.005"

2. Chamfered and deburred

3. Primer pocket uniformed to 0.129"

4. Flash hole deburred

The Lapua was not touched, completely unprepped.

Here is what was found for the Lapua:

Overall length of all 100 pieces of Lapua was 2.006inches, not one would measure different using Mititoyo dial calipers. I could not find one that was any different.

The neck thickness was all 0.015inches with no measurable difference (only measuring to 0.001, there would probably be variation at a precsion level of 0.0001")

Outside neck diameter was 0.335 with an almost inprecivable about of difference but maybe 0.0005" but my calipers would not resolve down enough.

Primer pocket was only place I could measure an actual difference, being in between 0.127" and 0.128"

The winchester brass, had MUCH larger dimensional variations than the Lapua, for example, some pieces would trim a good amount of metal and some would not even get trimmed when using my RCBS trim pro II. Same was the case with the primer pockets: some would get cut until the whole pocket was shiney, and some would barely get the corner cut. Almost every piece of winchester brass had burrs on the flashhole. Many had dents in the case and the necks that were severly out of round.

Then I went to a weight variation analysis. (all weight were taken with dillion d-terminator digital scale)

Lapua (that was a total population, using all 100 pieces of brass)

Average: 172.554 grains

Mode: 172.4grains

Standard Deviation: 0.408grains

Max: 173.4grains

Min: 171.8grains

Extreme spread: 1.6grains

Winchester (this statistical data was using ONLY 75 of the 100 pieces, the 25 that were culled were too far off average and were considered 'flyers')

Average: 157.885 grains

Mode: 157.8 and 158.4grains (both had 15pieces in there group)

Standard Deviation: 0.545grains

Max: 159grains

Min: 156.88grains

Extreme spread: 2.2grains

Note:if all 100 pieces were used, the STD and extreme spread would be much larger

BOTTOM LINE

If you open a box of Lapua and cull by a weight difference of +/- 0.5grains you would end up with about 76% of your lot within one grain. If you can live with +/-0.8grains, then you can use the whole box.

If you spend a good amount of time trimming, chamfering, deburing, uniforming, etc. the winchester brass, and then cull about 25% of the batch by weight, then you would end up with 75% of your lot with in +/-1.1grains. If you wanted a +/-0.5grain range, then you end up with only 45% of your brass.

This is just looking at unfired brass, I will do a few batches using the bullet/powder/primers from the same lot, then look at the group size difference. This will get posted later.

[M118LR]

Malak, you spent a lot more time on the brass to find this out. GOOD WORK. I am sure if you spend enough time on the WIN brass doing all that work you will be able to get it to shoot tiny groups. When I use Lapua brass and load my best powder, bullet comb I can shoot pretty good tiny little groups. It also helps that I have some really good shooting rifle and that the operater is a pretty good shot.

[George]

I am also surprised at the lower than expected quality of the batch of WW I just bought. I have only visually inspected, but the same packaging, dents, dings and burrs are present as Malak found. I did not find this level of crappy 3-4 years ago when I bought my last batch-o-WW so things must be slipping a bit. My useable cull average for under a 1 grain variance back in 2002 was 75-80% after all processing was done.

I am probably going to backline my WW brass and put all my effort into processing my RP brass and see if it really is as much better than WW as it looks at initial looksee.

Malak, thanks for the report on the Lapua vs. WW "Caseoff" ;-)

[Merlin Orr]

Excellent factfinding....I did the same thing this morning - kinda. I looked at a piece of WW brass side to side with a piece of Lapua. The Lapua looked "prettier."

[Malak]

I did not find this level of crappy 3-4 years ago when I bought my last batch-o-WW so things must be slipping a bit.

Ya, I got a bag of 50 300winmag left over from 6-7years ago. I looked at it and did some measurements. It is not Lapua, but its definitly a step up from the winney brass that I just got. I wonder if the 300winmag would get more attention than the 308?

[Bill T]

Denting and damaged cases are becoming the norm for a lot of Winchester brass. The last and I do mean LAST batch of Winchester brass I purchased was a poly bag of 100 in .25-06. I had to toss 6 cases because they were so badly dented I couldn't get the expander ball to pass thru them. To me a 6% scrap rate is unacceptable for any new brass. I believe a lot of this is because of poor material handling, and the fact Winchester chooses to package their brass in plastic bags instead of boxes like Remington does. I have completely switched to Remington brass from now on. I reciently purchased 500 Remington cases in 8 MM Mauser and every one was in pristine condition without a single dent. Today I purchased 100 Remington .45-70 cases that were bagged from Remington, and all 100 were fine. I'm hearing complaints constantly about Winchester brass so I know this isn't an isolated problem. Until I'm sure it's been addressed I won't be buying any more brass from WW. Bill T.

[Merlin Orr]

Bill T

I followed your photo to Imageshack and clicked slideshow for more of the same - High heels, leather and guns but there were no more photos. Please fix this for those of us who care.

Thank You,

Merlin

[tightloop]

Merlin

See what you are missing by getting Lapua brass..all those things that bench shooters do......you are missing out...LOL ...just because Lapua makes great brass...

[MKuhn]

Bill T

Remington comes in poly bags also, but they are heavier!

However I have had such poor case life with Remintion brass I'll stick with WW.

Mell

[George]

The Remington brass I have purchased recently comes in cardboard boxes of 100, not bags.

[Bill T]

The Remington brass I've purchased lately has come both boxed as well as bagged. As was mentioned the Remington brass that is bagged is in very heavy plastic bags. Bill T.

[MKuhn]

The only thing packaged worse than WW brass (in a different way) is Federal primers.

On the other hand, your girl is packeged just right.

Edited October 5, 2006 by MKuhn