What's The Ideal Weight Distribution On A Hammer?

[RodeoClown]

I recently bought the hammer that Randy Lee sells and asked him a few questions about it and hammers in general. Despite obviously being very busy he took the time and generously answered my questions. I’m posting an abbreviated version of the questions and answers in this forum with his permission in hopes they also may help others.

Julian: Your hammer, aside from being lighter, does it also change the trigger geometry in any way?

Randy Lee: The hammer release point is identical to the factory part. The hammer weight and mass distribution is what buys you the possible reduction in trigger pull weight. The issue then becomes how to balance the mainspring and rebound spring weights to achieve the lighter pull. I don't use spring kits for my trigger work, however Vic Pickett's spring kit is better than the Wolff kits and the Miculek set. That should steer you in the right direction.

Julian: Thanks, Randy. Much appreciated. I just bought the Vic Pickett Springs. As to the hammer, if I understand it correctly, the ideal mass distribution would be the most weight possible close to the rotation point, and as little weight as possible up top where the hammer hits the firing pin? Or would you want a little more weight up top, as, if I remember correctly from physics, energy equals speed x mass, and that way the hammer would hit the firing pin with more force, thus needing less speed to set off the primer? But then again, you'd need extra energy to move that extra weight up top. Help! Which is it? Max weight at bottom, minimum weight at top, or a more even weight distribution?

Randy Lee: With the hammer, it's a bit of both. The hammer hitting the firing pin needs enough mass to overcome the reactive forces of the firing pin spring, dampening of the strike by the free float of the cartridge itself, movement of the primer if not completely seated and deformation of the primer cup. Too light of a hammer face can be counter productive because the actual impacts and spring forces have harmonics associated with the chain of events. Essentially, too light of a mass above the point of rotation will cause the firing pin to bounce the hammer back and bleed off energy before the primer cup is adequately deformed for ignition. You can go crazy thinking about this stuff... I know I have.

Julian: +1. And thank you so much for the help. I feel like I understand it much better

now.

[Carmoney]

The Randy hammer is an excellent product, both in concept and execution.

People do need to understand that simply installing it in the gun will not lower the trigger pull weight in any meaningful way. But all other things being equal, a lightened hammer will allow the springs to be adjusted for a significantly lighter DA pull and still have good primer ignition.

Careful, though--over the past year and a half, I have seen too many revolvers with super-light actions go "click" in the middle of a big match. Might be the ammo, might be the gun getting dirty, might be lots of things--but if you ride too close to the edge of reliability, you can start to have problems....

[cliffwalsh]

I have had the clicks in the past and I know it was the ammo. Revo's don't lose brass so I was using the same 800 over and over. They were trimmed down so there was higher pressure than normal in the cases. After a while, the primer pockets got loose and the primers were backing out as I shot. I would get light lits on the last few shots on the clip.

[Carmoney]

For those who do their own gun work, an excellent lightened hammer can be fashioned from the stock hammer:

Edited September 12, 2006 by Carmoney

[pskys2]

The "feel" of the action job is as important as the actual "weight". Where have we heard that one, eh?

Mike do all Counselers have that much spare time in Iowa, I know you're fast but that hammer must have taken a bit of time. But, Dr. Dremels action pull is nice.

The only clicks I've had with my Randy Hammer and quality components (I'd probably have many with Car$ loadings of ancient range brass, but that's another post, another time) has been due to me and my finger not being in sync (occassionally have had a similar problem with the one next to it too). Sometimes I can only get the biological computer to do the 1911 stroke at high speeds and then it hurts the most, of course. Then it isn't an actual hammer dropping that clicks, but the cylinder & stop.

But then it's hard to hear a Randy Hammer click even when the hammer drops.

If you do run into those things, try upping the return spring weight a bit, or sell all of your 1911's. After 2 or 3 years of looong pulls, it may take a set.

Question: If a Randy Hammer drops in the woods, does it click if no one else is there?

[Carmoney]

Mike do all Counselers have that much spare time in Iowa, I know you're fast but that hammer must have taken a bit of time.

Naw, I just use one of those fiber cut-off wheels to hack the spur and do the rough shaping, then a sanding drum and cratex tip to finish it off.

Took me maybe 45 minutes.....(i.e. 3.5 billable hrs).......

Sometimes I can only get the biological computer to do the 1911 stroke at high speeds and then it hurts the most, of course.

It's awfully easy to start short-stroking when you get too excited.

[Tom Mainus]

It's awfully easy to start short-stroking when you get too excited.

That sounds like a personal problem for a different kind of forum.

[pskys2]

3.5 billable hours, do all Attorneys have such "Advanced" Accounting skills?

I knew there was something deeply twisted in the legal profession.

Which is worse, short stroking or premature shots?

[RodeoClown]

For those who do their own gun work, an excellent lightened hammer can be fashioned from the stock hammer:

thanks for the pictures ... I had made a hammer like that, but I messed it up because I wanted to try to shorten the trigger pull length by rounding off a couple of edges. It kind of worked, but I'd have to pull the trigger really hard for the cylinder to come around quickly enough. And then other stuff started to go wrong. Anyway. Long story.

[RogerT]

I have a 7,5 lb trigger pull in my 625.

5,5 lb is mainspring pull and the rest (2 lb) is trigger return spring force. (Hammer is a stock hammer with small spur).

I wonder if I can go lower with the stock hammer in place and still have reliable ingition?

Edited March 21, 2008 by RogerT

[kframe_mike]

Without knowing whats been done to the rest of the gun,I'd say that 7.5 lbs with that hammer is pretty darn good.Providing your 100% reliable.Around 8 lbs seemed to be the threshold on my 625 before I bobbed it.That was with Fed primers too.Now,even though the pull is still around 8,it'll set off any primer out there.I want to get a couple more strain screws so I can play with getting it lighter.

[RogerT]

I have followed the Jerry Miculek Trigger Job video tips, other than that the gun is standard.

The cylinder slots needed some trimming last year and the cylinder stop has been replaced once by me, that indicates frequent use, but I don't know how many rounds it is shot. Perhaps 10k.