Multiple Targets Behind A Barricade

[boo radley]

(I did a search, but didn't quite find what I was looking for).

One of the things I seem to constantly encouter are barricades with multiple targets behind them.

For example, imagine 6 targets behind your basic barricade, 3 of which you shoot from one side, and 3 from the other. The barricade is wide enough you have to move your feet. Like this:

.. a.. b.. c.. d.. e.. f

------barricade-----

.....shooter......

I've been shooting it outside-in: f, e, d then a, b, c. But I'm wondering, especially if there is another array to move to, if it's not better to take the harder (c or d) shots, first, so you can end more or less standing up?

Thx

[Loves2Shoot]

If it is a reload required I shoot it cba, fed because it flows better for me. If I'm moving out I shoot the side in the direction I'm moving too last. I would rather end up leaning a bit reather than standing if I have to move.

[boo radley]

Thx, L2S!

If movement is required, I see what you mean about the order.

I'm still not sure, though, why you start with the hardest shot "C" ? I need to experiment, I guess: I've been thinking it's faster to start with the easiest shot on the side of a barricade, and move/adjust into the more difficult shots....

I hadn't thought about leaning/indexing into the most difficult shot, first, then releasing out.

Edited July 17, 2006 by boo radley

[38superman]

For what its worth, here's how I do it and why.

I shoot the first three targets from the inside out.

This because I want to take the target nearest me last.

That way I don't have the gun wrapped around the barricade and it lets me get out of that shooting position and on my way a little quicker.

When arriving at the other side I take the nearest target first and shoot from the outside in.

This because it is the first target visible and also because it takes less time to mount the gun and take aim on a closer target.

I prefer a shot to shot index toward the inside target rather than have to wrap myself around the barricade, mount the gun and find the more difficult target first.

Tony

Edited July 17, 2006 by tlshores

[boo radley]

For what its worth, here's how I do it and why.

[..good stuff deleted]

Thx, Tony -- I see what you and L2S are saying, I believe -- the time needed to index initially on the most difficult target is offset, by being able to move to the *next* position (ie, other side) more quickly.

Interesting. I need to set up a barricade in my garage for dry-fire. Seems like I run into a stage like this in every match.

Weird thing is, on high-round field course stages, with lots of movement, I've been shooting above my class, in matches. But on the stand-and-shoot, or, more commonly stages with limited movement, like a barricade stage, I'm giving up major time (and some points) somewhere. I need to stop the bleeding.

[Singlestack]

I would shoot it F,E,D then A,B,C.

You can usually see F so IMO its a faster draw. I would reload going to the left so I'm not chasing my gun with the mag.

[Lurper]

Shoot it abc def. Especially if there is a reload or movement into or out of the box behind the barricade. You don't want to be leaning to the left if you have to move to your right to the next box or vice versa. Use the natural movement of your gun during the recoil cycle (right and up) to speed up your transitions. Unless the ranges are great (35 yds. +) you don't gain any advantage by indexing on the hardest shot because of the barricade. If the angles are severe, your foot position is perhaps more important. If you have to lean way out to hit the inner most target of the array, start with your feet in the position that most comfortably allows you to do so. With a wide barricade, find the same foot position for the other side. Engage the first array, move your feet to the next position and engage the next array. This is where an intermediate shooter will save time. Most people have trouble with barricades. While they are moving their feet around (which is burning up time), you have a stable platform. Remember: SPEED = ECONOMY OF MOTION. If possible, set your stance to where you don't have to move your feet at all to engage all of the targets. When it's not possible, set up in a way that will require the least amount of movement to engage all of the targets. Also, don't touch the barricade with your hand or your gun as a general rule.

[Jim Norman]

If I were the shooter…

Let's assume that if there are to be additional arrays to engage that they are to the right of this array. If they are to the left, simply reverse the procedure. Also assume we are talking about a right-handed shooter.

Shoot CBA, reloading to FED and boogie.

This assumes that you are in L-10, Production, Rev, or SS. If so, you will probably be reloading again as you leave the barricade. If you are Limited or Open, then skip the reload at the barricade and still shoot the same way. Draw to the inside, move out and away so that you are engaging the last target as you are already moving into position for the second set. This puts you in the correct position to move quickly across to the FED array. Keep in mind, you only want to cover ground one time!

If this is the only array and a reload is required, then the same order of engagement would be followed.

My opinion

Jim

[boo radley]

Shoot it abc def. Especially if there is a reload or movement into or out of the box behind the barricade. You don't want to be leaning to the left if you have to move to your right to the next box or vice versa. Use the natural movement of your gun during the recoil cycle (right and up) to speed up your transitions. Unless the ranges are great (35 yds. +) you don't gain any advantage by indexing on the hardest shot because of the barricade. If the angles are severe, your foot position is perhaps more important. If you have to lean way out to hit the inner most target of the array, start with your feet in the position that most comfortably allows you to do so. With a wide barricade, find the same foot position for the other side. Engage the first array, move your feet to the next position and engage the next array. This is where an intermediate shooter will save time. Most people have trouble with barricades. While they are moving their feet around (which is burning up time), you have a stable platform. Remember: SPEED = ECONOMY OF MOTION. If possible, set your stance to where you don't have to move your feet at all to engage all of the targets. When it's not possible, set up in a way that will require the least amount of movement to engage all of the targets. Also, don't touch the barricade with your hand or your gun as a general rule.

Great points, Lurper...Heh, but there's still no consensus. I see shooting "ABC" first, and that's an excellent tip about moving so that the feet will be set for the inside shot on the 2nd array, but why would you then shoot "D"? Because it's your preference for transitioning the gun L->R?

[Lurper]

Shoot it abc def. Especially if there is a reload or movement into or out of the box behind the barricade. You don't want to be leaning to the left if you have to move to your right to the next box or vice versa. Use the natural movement of your gun during the recoil cycle (right and up) to speed up your transitions. Unless the ranges are great (35 yds. +) you don't gain any advantage by indexing on the hardest shot because of the barricade. If the angles are severe, your foot position is perhaps more important. If you have to lean way out to hit the inner most target of the array, start with your feet in the position that most comfortably allows you to do so. With a wide barricade, find the same foot position for the other side. Engage the first array, move your feet to the next position and engage the next array. This is where an intermediate shooter will save time. Most people have trouble with barricades. While they are moving their feet around (which is burning up time), you have a stable platform. Remember: SPEED = ECONOMY OF MOTION. If possible, set your stance to where you don't have to move your feet at all to engage all of the targets. When it's not possible, set up in a way that will require the least amount of movement to engage all of the targets. Also, don't touch the barricade with your hand or your gun as a general rule.

Great points, Lurper...Heh, but there's still no consensus. I see shooting "ABC" first, and that's an excellent tip about moving so that the feet will be set for the inside shot on the 2nd array, but why would you then shoot "D"? Because it's your preference for transitioning the gun L->R?

As a general rule, you should shoot left to right because the gun wants to move that way. Also, from the right side of the barricade, you want to shoot DEF because 1. if you are going to move that way(to the right), you want to be in a position that facilitates that movement (in fact, you should be firing your last shot at F as you take your first step but before your foot touches the ground outside of the box) 2. it is usually better to begin in the akward position and shoot out of it as you engage the rest of the targets. I picture it as winding and unwinding. You want to be in the akward shooting position for as short a time as possible.

If you are an intermediate shooter, foot position and reducing the amount of unneccessary movement will put you ahead of your competition. If you are a M/GM then it will be completing the exercise smoothly that will make the difference.

You won't get a consensus because the vast majority of shooters are intermediate level. I would venture that you would be much closer to a consensus if you asked only M/GM class shooters.

[Jim Norman]

Interesting points.

I would still shoot CBA then FED.

Draw on A, roll out of hte tight spot, reloading as I transition to the second half, F will be the first visible target so I engage it. then E then D, then step out and boogie.

Jim

[Lurper]

One additional point:

If you are going to be moving from the barricade to the right, then you would especially want to shoot D,E,F. Your torso will be facing left while you are trying to move right. Not the smoothest way to move. As mentioned above, ideally you will fire your second shot at F as you are leaving the box. You won't be able to do that anywhere near as easily if you shoot F,E,D.

[spook]

DEF --- ABC

I would start out on my draw side on the most difficult target, so I can "fan outward" for an easy exit to the next array.

On the other side, it would be just shoot 'em as you see 'em...

[Tman33_99]

I am a DEF, ABC guy as well. Hit the hardest target on my strong side, and move towards week side engaging the easier targets, which also gets my body moving towards the next array. The move to the next array also has my gun moving towards my reload instead of away. Then it is shoot em as you see them. In my opinion, to shoot either ABC or FED first you are moving from balance to unbalanced, then have to stop that movement and start it going the opposite direction. If you go DEF, ABC or CBA, FED then your body moves one direction during the entire course and is smoother.

Edited July 19, 2006 by Tman33_99

[Jim Norman]

One additional point:

If you are going to be moving from the barricade to the right, then you would especially want to shoot D,E,F. Your torso will be facing left while you are trying to move right. Not the smoothest way to move. As mentioned above, ideally you will fire your second shot at F as you are leaving the box. You won't be able to do that anywhere near as easily if you shoot F,E,D.

This is an interesting thread. One simple array and so many thoghts on how it should be shot. All of which have valid points to recommend them.

I would argue the engagement of the last array before leaving the barricade this way.

While it is true that I would be a bit twisted facing left while moving right by shooting FED, I believe that the time made up by the fact that F will be visible long before D more than makes up for the slightly awkward step out from behind the barricade. Reasoning being: I see F without hunting for it. I need not be fully settled to take shot one, I sweep across thru E and end on D. I can step sideways out from behind the barricade, performing a reload if needed on the way to the next position.

If on the other hand, I were to shoot D first, I need to settle and search for it. I can't even start to move till after I shoot hte first shot on F.

I think I just might set this up as a practice and try it., Even with an airsoft at home it should prove an interesting exercise.

Jim

[Loves2Shoot]

ps. I just shoot left to right because I load better transitioning to the right and the F target is the easiest in the array to transition too.