IceMack Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Hi Guys, I'm going to shoot IPSC Production with an H&K USP .45 full-size. (Yes, I'm crazy ) I'm shooting a 200gr jacketed flat point bullet. It's fully enclosed at the back but there is a flat point of lead exposed on the front. My question is how much WST to load this with for testing? I'm going to chrono some samples to see if I can get the sweet spot where it cycles reliably and goes as slow as possible but don't know where that start point is. I've loaded some at 4.2gr, but haven't clocked it yet. Do I load some at 4.1, 4.0, 3.9, 3.8 etc or is there a better way? Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer. Cheers, Shawn Calgary, Alberta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Check out Winchesters site: http://www.wwpowder.com/data/handgun/45acp.php They show for a 200 FP in my hard copy, they show starting @ max charge: 5.3 890fps = 178PF min charge: 4.7 825fps = 165PF I did some plated 200s at 4.4, PF was ~140.. 4.2 Jacketed.. are going to be pretty slow I'd guess. When I work up, I go by .2grs at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I've loaded some at 4.2gr, but haven't clocked it yet. Do I load some at 4.1, 4.0, 3.9, 3.8 etc or is there a better way? Unless you have a long drive to your chrono area, this might be a waste of powder. With the posts I have seen about getting a 40 to production PF limits I would advise taking along some softer springs. A 200gr bullet in a 45 at a PF of 145 should be BB gun range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceMack Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 Thanks for the response guys. Anyone have any issues shooting 165gr or 185gr .45? Links to Winchester's load chart show no minimums for WST powder and have no explanation. I've never thought about that weight in .45, but saw it on the product list. (I get my bullets from Montana Gold) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 The hardcopy version I have shows 185 JPH, minimum 5.1gr of WST. 165 they don't list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceMack Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 Thanks BerKim, What was the muzzle velocity of that 185gr JHP at the minimum 5.1gr of WST? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 sorry... that would probably be helpful.. 185 JHP WST 5.1gr 875fps This is from the Wincehster Relaoding Components Manual, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricciardelli Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 185's: WST From 4.3 grains to 5.6 grains CCI-300 Primer 200's: WST From 4.6 grains to 5.3 grains CCI-300 Primer 225 to 230's: WST From 3.8 grains to 4.9 grains CCI-300 Primer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceMack Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 Thanks all, You guys are awesome! I'm picking up 1000 bullets tomorrow afternoon and loading up. Ultimately, I'd like to have a 185gr .45 going out at 700fps (129.5 power factor) but I'm not sure that light a load will cycle reliably. Should be interesting... I'll post up when I find a combination that works. Cheers, Shawn Calgary, Alberta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Using 185 gr. Rainier or Berry's plated bullets 4.5 gr. of WST gave me ca. 740 fps, 5.0 gr. of WST gave ca 820 fps with the same bullets. IO have used 3.8 to 4.2 gr. WST with the 230 gr. Rainier RN for 655 to 725 fps. I get approximately the same velocities using jacketed bullets as the Rainiers. In all cases nice clean burning loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 (edited) I use a G21 for Production (yup...I'm crazy too ) 185g jacketed bullet, 4.8g of WW Supertarget, CCI primers. 780 fps and 2 inch groups at 30 yds. Soft as a babies bottom.... Edited June 24, 2006 by Chuck D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceMack Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 I knew there must be some other crazy folks who want to shoot the 'wrong' gun in Production. I'm not alone Thanks again to all, I'm going to shoot a Provincials match this weekend with the 200gr JFPs, but right after I'm going to buy some 185 (or 165gr if I can get them) jacketed .45 As a general rule, for the same powder charge and identical bullet weight does jacketed have a higher or lower muzzle velocity than plain lead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Some time back I tried a light load for steel. Used a light spring in the autos. 180gr LSWC Excell 4.3gr WST 1.215"OAL ? SA 1911 800 FPS S&W 625 793 FPS 4.0gr WST Clean Large Spread S&W 625 711 FPS Para 673 FPS Clark Bar 740 FPS For what it's worth.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceMack Posted June 28, 2006 Author Share Posted June 28, 2006 OK, back from the range. I found the lightest load that cycled reliably was this one: 200gr JFP .45 3.7gr Winchester Super Target (WST) OAL 1.170" In a H&K USP .45 full size. Didn't chrono it but all it needs is 625fps to make 125 Power Factor and I'm damn sure it's going that fast. Talked to my bullet guy and he has some 185gr JHP .45 in stock too. I'm going to pick up some of that after this match. QUESTION: To get lower muzzle velocity from a .45 shooting 185gr bullets, should I look for a slower burning powder than WST? Cheers, Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 QUESTION: To get lower muzzle velocity from a .45 shooting 185gr bullets, should I look for a slower burning powder than WST? Try that new Cowboy powder that I can't remember the name of. The fluffy stuff that fills big cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 The powder is called Trail Boss & a case full gets a 230gr Precision bullet to about 680fps. Might try a 185gr Berry HB for the profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceMack Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 Lessons learned: 200gr JFP .45 3.7gr Winchester Super Target CCI primers 1.175" OAL in an H&K USP .45 gives an average of 630.5 FPS over 5 shots. That provides a 'Holy crap' power factor of 126.1! A wee bit close for comfort. It also won't feed the first round off a full magazine very reliably, a fact that I didn't notice in testing, but that became abundantly clear in the match. Easy to shoot, soft as you could hope for, but not enough 'jam' to cycle against that fully compressed magazine. I went to loading 9 rounds in the 10 round mag in the end and that worked OK, but not in time to save me from hosing 7 of 12 stages with stoppages. At least my hits were good when I got it to go 'bang'. New plan is to load 185gr JHP .45 to about 700 FPS. I'll update the thread when I have some testing complete. As always, all advice and criticism gratefully accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Lessons learned:200gr JFP .45 3.7gr Winchester Super Target CCI primers 1.175" OAL in an H&K USP .45 gives an average of 630.5 FPS over 5 shots. That provides a 'Holy crap' power factor of 126.1! A wee bit close for comfort. It also won't feed the first round off a full magazine very reliably, a fact that I didn't notice in testing, but that became abundantly clear in the match. Easy to shoot, soft as you could hope for, but not enough 'jam' to cycle against that fully compressed magazine. I went to loading 9 rounds in the 10 round mag in the end and that worked OK, but not in time to save me from hosing 7 of 12 stages with stoppages. At least my hits were good when I got it to go 'bang'. New plan is to load 185gr JHP .45 to about 700 FPS. I'll update the thread when I have some testing complete. As always, all advice and criticism gratefully accepted. I have not tried WSt with 200 gr. bullets. I have used 4.5 to 5.0 gr. of WST with the 185 gr. Rainier plated bullets with excellent results. Also lighter loads with the 330 gr. Star FMJ and 230 gr. Rainiers. WST and American select are my favorite two powders for loading the 40 S&W and 45 ACP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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