Extraction Problems

[Hungry Beagle]

I've been having serious extraction problems lately. At the start of the season, I had a lot of stovepipe type malfunctions. I use a .38 super Aftec with one of the SVI 9mm breechfaces as I've been shooting Armscor .38 super rimless brass for the last few years.

The ejection pattern was all over the place; some brass coming out at 2 o'clock, some going straight out at 3 o'clock, and even some brass going down at about 4 'clock.

Worried that the rounds were hitting the scope mount, we removed it. No change; gun was still malfunctioning. Liberal applications of dyechem don't show any brass hitting any parts of the slide.

I tried going from a 9lb to an 8lb spring with little success. I then decided to try putting in a new ejector and ordered one of the Brazos tuned ejectors. It was quite a bit longer than the old one, but it didn't seem to fix any of the ejection problems. Instead of getting stovepipes, I was getting lots of jams where the brass gets caught between the top of the breechface and the barrel hood; almost like the extractor is not holding the brass. I checked the extractor tension, and it's at 18oz and can easily hold a loaded round (I checked).

I tried removing springs from the Aftec, and with 10oz of tension, it actually seemed to help a little bit. Somebody then suggested that maybe my recoil spring was too light, and suggested I bump it up to a 10lb spring. This seems to have made the ejection pattern more consistent (all of the rounds coming out at 2 o'clock or so) and the brass lands about 3 feet away from where I'm standing.

I'm hoping that this is the solution to the problem, but I can't understand why. Can anybody explain to me how too light a recoil spring could be responsible for inconsistent ejection and malfunctions? Is it really as simple as changing the recoil spring, or should I be looking at some deeper problem which may rear it's ugly head up at a later date?

I'm also using Montana Gold 115 grn JHP loaded to an OAL of 1.240"

Thanks for any input.

Chris

[AlamoShooter]

I had close to same thing at the Colorado Shoot. my gun had worked great for months and at the state shoot !'stove pipes" the extractor presure was corect but, it is old too added lots of extractor presure and the probelm is gone. = I just added more than normal bend to the extractor.

[eric nielsen]

How well does your firing-pin stop fit into the extractor & back of the slide? Can you twist the extractor, move it fore & aft, or does the FP stop hold it dead still.

If you hold just the slide, upside down in your hand, and press on the hook of the extractor [repeatedly] - does the extractor hook move in & out freely, no hitches or sticky spots?

If you grab on the EJECTOR with needlenose pliers and try to wiggle it, does the ejector move?

With the top end removed & a mag full of ammo in the frame, does your top round of ammo touch the ejector? What about the mag feedlips, are they free from touching the other parts of the gun?

[Hungry Beagle]

How well does your firing-pin stop fit into the extractor & back of the slide? Can you twist the extractor, move it fore & aft, or does the FP stop hold it dead still.

I can't twist it at all, but it moves slightly forward and back. I can't measure it, but it goes from being flush with the rear of the slide to slightly indented. I'd say it can't be more than a couple thousandths of an inch though.

If you hold just the slide, upside down in your hand, and press on the hook of the extractor [repeatedly] - does the extractor hook move in & out freely, no hitches or sticky spots?

The extractor hook seems to move pretty freely, but the bottom of the extractor looks (looking towards the breechface) like it might be just barely touching the bottom of the hole that it comes out of. At least, there's a lot more clearance to the top of the hole than to the bottom.

If you grab on the EJECTOR with needlenose pliers and try to wiggle it, does the ejector move?

Nope; the ejector is pinned pretty tight.

With the top end removed & a mag full of ammo in the frame, does your top round of ammo touch the ejector? What about the mag feedlips, are they free from touching the other parts of the gun?

Hmmm...A couple of the magazines will contact the ejector when inserted, but once the magazine catch engages and they are allowed to settle, I can see a sliver of daylight between the magazine and the ejector. There is a little worn spot where the magazines have contacted the ejector though.

[jjanglin]

Was the bottem part of the breech face cut to clear the ejector if so your going to

have to replace the breech face and have the clearance taken from the ejector

its self.

T

Jim

Sailors custom

[jjanglin]

Im not sure where the idea to use a 38 super aftec for 9mm/super comp style

brass came from but it can cause problems if you shoot rimless style brass

you should be using a 9mm style aftec,Ive had a lot of guns with the 38 super

aftec put in them and the shooters are using 9mm or super comp and they start

having problems once things get wore in. The secret to an aftec is to know its quirks

the fellow who brought them into shooting world gave me a lot of info about

them and what he says works!

Jim

Sailors Custom

[ipscron2000]

HB

I'll throw in my 2 cents for what it's worth.

I had a very similiar problem a year ago when I increased my powder charge and we fixed it with one or two solutions.

1. change the aftec springs with new ones.

2. we added a pound of weight to the recoil spring. this holds the chamber closed for a nano second longer. when the gun fires, the brass expands to fill the chamber. after the firing it takes a certain amount of time for the brass to shrink back down and not "grip" the chamber walls before the extraction takes place.

At least this is what my GS and I came up with. Anyway, the problem is fixed. I think the aftec springs were really the main problem. Order a new set from Brazo's.

[Newguy]

I had a similar problem with 9mm. Tried everything, including a tuned Brazos extractor, heavier recoil springs, and an Aftec. Turns out the problem was bullet-related. I was using Hornady one-lube and the bullet was slightly tacky. When they were shined up, the problem disappeared. Also, make sure the rounds are not slightly bulged (drop check), which can cause them to bind and stovepipe on the way out.

[Hungry Beagle]

Thanks for the input, guys.

My springs are brand new (I keep a collection of 10 spares ) and I tumble my loaded rounds until they're super shiny.

I'm going to try replacing the firing pin stop (in case it was installed incorrectly), change over to a 9mm Aftec and maybe replace the breechface (not all at the same time) and see if any of those are the culprit.

[XRe]

I'm going to try replacing the firing pin stop (in case it was installed incorrectly), change over to a 9mm Aftec

Make sure the FP stop is fit to the AFTEC correctly - otherwise, your extractor tension will be too high...

[Hungry Beagle]

Just a bit of followup.

Thanks to everybody that has helped me, both on and off the forum.

Following the Area 1, where I had 4 stovepipes and a failure to extract that took about 6 seconds to clear, I installed a new 9mm/38 supercomp aftec extractor. I was a little concerned, because I'm no gunsmith, and I was worried more about fitting the firing pin stop to the slide than I was about fitting the aftec.

I don't think the firing pin stop is perfectly fitted, because it's free to "wiggle" a little bit, but not enough that the extractor can turn. I've since shot the gun for over a month and about 2000 rounds without a single extraction problem.

With the SVI 9mm breechface and the 9mm supercomp breechface coupled with the 9mm aftec (with both springs) I have a whopping 28 oz of tension. This might be a bit much, as the rounds are pretty darn tight in there, but I haven't had any feeding problems yet.

I'm not entirely sure why the old setup ran so long without having frequent malfunctions, but the current setup seems to be working just fine now.