Looking For Data For 40s&w, 180gr Mg, With An Oal 1.125-1.135

[mcb]

So I have been using N340:

180 grain Berry's

5.3 grain N340

Federal Primers

OAL 1.127

Crimp 0.420

I'm shooting this primarily in an XD-40 Tactical but also a S&W 610 revolver. I am switching away from the Berry's to Montana Gold, go tired of star shaped holes, especially out of the XD.

Some of the guys I shoot with suggested using N320 (they can get is cheap and have lots of it), but I think most of them are loading long ~1.12 for the STI style guns and the more I research this the more trouble I am having finding good date for N320 with 180 grain bullets with and OAL of 1.125-1.135 that will feed in the XD. Jeff Maass has lots of N320 load but they are all long. I went through most of six page of result here on the forum when I searched "n320" and found maybe 4-5 load that had OAL and velocity posted. I would like more to make me feel better.

The thinker here is if you look at the burn rate chart Titegroup is faster than n320 and yet there is lots of loads for Titegroup and short 180 grain 40S&W loads. I was in fact using Titegroup before I gave the N340 a try. This puzzles me. You would think the slightly slower N320 would work better with the heavier bullet.

So do you guys have any good data for N320 powder and 180 grain bullet weight or should I just stick with my N340 load. There seems to be lot of data for n320 and short 40's with 165 grain and lighter bullets and lot of long 180 grain data.

Thanks

mcb

[S.C. Shooter]

I like TG with the .40 loads

[TCK]

I shoot an XD with N320 and 180's

4.7 grains loaded to 1.145 and it will feed flawlessly in your gun.

3.7 grains loaded to 1.135 is a great minor load

[mcb]

I found some data in a Sierra manual.

With N320

4.1gr = 850fps

4.5gr = 900fps

4.8gr = 950fps

5.2gr = 1000fps

This is with Sierra 180 gr JHP listed OAL of 1.125. This seems reasonable with the few other short loads I have been able to find. This data is old though, it was in a book I got at Gander Mountain that is a collection of 40S&W and 10mm data. (The Complete Reloading Manual for the 10mm and 40S&W) The funny and dated part is this information is:

"While we have seen some IPSC/USPSA handguns chambered for the 40S&W, it doesn't seem to have made much impact in the competitive circles. This may change as the tactical and/or stock classes expand."

Found that funny.

So I think I am probably going to start with 4.4 grains of N320 with an OAL of ~1.130 and work up from there. My guess is it will take 4.5 or 4.6 grains to actually make Major. I will post chrono data if I ever find time to get to the range with my chrono.

Thanks

mcb

[AustinMike]

The thinker here is if you look at the burn rate chart Titegroup is faster than n320 and yet there is lots of loads for Titegroup and short 180 grain 40S&W loads. I was in fact using Titegroup before I gave the N340 a try. This puzzles me. You would think the slightly slower N320 would work better with the heavier bullet.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's scratched his head on that. I'm about to start reloading for my stock Glock 22. I've heard or read where people say 320 is too fast, but obviously lots of folks use that and the apparently faster Titegroup. Additionally, I believe Titegroup is double based and 320 is single based. Everything I've heard indicates that double based powders are more susceptible to pressure spikes at higher charges, whereas single based powders supposedly have a more linear pressure curve. So, why does it seem that Titegroup is often preferred over 320?

[XRe]

So, why does it seem that Titegroup is often preferred over 320?

Hmmmm...... I'll give you three guesses...... no, not safety.... no, not cleanliness.... Bingo... we're a bunch of cheap b*****ds It feels snappier than N320, too, though - and a lot of folks seem to like that feel.

Burn rate is a horrible way to decide on a powder to use, though... My load for my Trojan is a 185 PB 4.2 N320 .420 crimp 1.180" OAL - 170PF. Loads would need to be in the 5.0gr range for jacketed, it seems. 3.8gr of Titegroup with the same specs is also 170PF. Snappier feeling load, for sure.

Start low and work up. Maybe around 4.0 would be a good start point, just to make sure you've got some safety margin... And make sure you've got no chance of setback with your setup - a U-die is highly recommended on this forum for short-loaded .40 using fast powder....!!!

[45gunner]

So, why does it seem that Titegroup is often preferred over 320?

Hmmmm...... I'll give you three guesses...... no, not safety.... no, not cleanliness.... Bingo... we're a bunch of cheap b*****ds It feels snappier than N320, too, though - and a lot of folks seem to like that feel.

Burn rate is a horrible way to decide on a powder to use, though... My load for my Trojan is a 185 PB 4.2 N320 .420 crimp 1.180" OAL - 170PF. Loads would need to be in the 5.0gr range for jacketed, it seems. 3.8gr of Titegroup with the same specs is also 170PF. Snappier feeling load, for sure.

Start low and work up. Maybe around 4.0 would be a good start point, just to make sure you've got some safety margin... And make sure you've got no chance of setback with your setup - a U-die is highly recommended on this forum for short-loaded .40 using fast powder....!!!

What is a U die. Why is it used?

[AustinMike]

we're a bunch of cheap b*****ds

Hey, I resemble that remark!

What is a U die. Why is it used?

This is the undersized sizing die. It sizes a hair smaller and further down than regular dies. I should help against bullet setback, but I think its primarily to remove the "Glock bulge" and help prevent feeding issues. The Lee factory crimp die is supposed to be a good measure of prevention against setback. It basically does another full length size.

[XRe]

This is the undersized sizing die. It sizes a hair smaller and further down than regular dies. I should help against bullet setback, but I think its primarily to remove the "Glock bulge" and help prevent feeding issues. The Lee factory crimp die is supposed to be a good measure of prevention against setback. It basically does another full length size.

My interpretation of the workings of these dies are opposite of Mike's - I guess we need a third opinion The U-die sizes the brass .001" smaller than a normal die - and the EGW version of it has been ground down at the base to provide a more full-length resize than a normal die. The undersize sizing action is what helps prevent setback, and the stock Lee die works fine for this issue, too - there's more resistance against the bullet seating deeper. The ground base helps eliminate the Glocked brass, as the brass is sized further down. The FCD does, in fact, have a sizing ring built in - but it doesn't always touch every case. It's mainly useful in preventing an oversize case from making it through the production line - sort of a failsafe - and it's main use is also fixing Glocked brass. You can feel a difference in the stroke of the press when the FCD has to do something.

I use a FCD, and own a U-die, but am not using it, yet. I haven't had any problems chambering things - but I still may switch to the U-die for the added setback protection.

Edited January 20, 2006 by XRe

[mcb]

Thanks guys. I will probably back down a few more tenth as suggested and work up to it. I still think from my research its going to take 4.5 - 4.6 grains of N320 to make major in my gun. 4.5 grains of Titegroup made Major with a PF of 171 our of my 5 inch XD.

As for set back my loads seem really tight with the standard Dillon dies. I have been crimping down to 0.420 and on the rounds I have had to pull during adjustments it takes several very sharp blows to unseat the bullet. I will keep and eye on it though.

Most of my brass is range brass that I picked up last year shooting factory so I'm sure I have some Glocked brass in there and yet I have only had one case not pass my Dillon Case gauge and it was definitly a Glocked case.

I will post the result of working this load up when I finally get to the range. If anyone else has good data for N320 in short 40's I would love to see it.

Thanks

mcb

[45gunner]

This is the undersized sizing die. It sizes a hair smaller and further down than regular dies. I should help against bullet setback, but I think its primarily to remove the "Glock bulge" and help prevent feeding issues. The Lee factory crimp die is supposed to be a good measure of prevention against setback. It basically does another full length size.

My interpretation of the workings of these dies are opposite of Mike's - I guess we need a third opinion The U-die sizes the brass .001" smaller than a normal die - and the EGW version of it has been ground down at the base to provide a more full-length resize than a normal die. The undersize sizing action is what helps prevent setback, and the stock Lee die works fine for this issue, too - there's more resistance against the bullet seating deeper. The ground base helps eliminate the Glocked brass, as the brass is sized further down. The FCD does, in fact, have a sizing ring built in - but it doesn't always touch every case. It's mainly useful in preventing an oversize case from making it through the production line - sort of a failsafe - and it's main use is also fixing Glocked brass. You can feel a difference in the stroke of the press when the FCD has to do something.

I use a FCD, and own a U-die, but am not using it, yet. I haven't had any problems chambering things - but I still may switch to the U-die for the added setback protection.

I had a little trouble at first when reloading Glock shot brass until I realized that my seating die was not adjusted down far enough to remove the bulge. So far I have never had a chambering problem since that.

[AustinMike]

My interpretation of the workings of these dies are opposite of Mike's

And I could have it backwards too, wouldn't be the first time.