Tuning up a dwx to shoot minor power factor

[Marven1999]

I'm going to be purchasing a CZ Dan Wesson dwx and there's not a whole lot of info out there about tuning it for USPSA competition. For reference on my shadow to I use a 10 lb recoil spring and shoot about 133 power factor 147 grain bullets. I'm very good at smithing my shadow but this will be my first 2011ish platform

[togmaster]

There's a whole thread on this. Lots of info available.

[Marven1999]

On 8/25/2024 at 6:05 AM, togmaster said:

There's a whole thread on this. Lots of info available.

Can you link it or something? If you're talking about that motherload thread it seems to me like it's just hundreds of pages of people talking about the gun but nothing of value to me.

[42ATK]

1 hour ago, Marven1999 said:

Can you link it or something? If you're talking about that motherload thread it seems to me like it's just hundreds of pages of people talking about the gun but nothing of value to me.

It also has a lot of bad advice that doesn’t work for a competition pistol lol

[Marven1999]

2 hours ago, 42ATK said:

It also has a lot of bad advice that doesn’t work for a competition pistol lol

Yeah there's 80 pages and very little info I could use LOL

[ParrytheWind]

Wouldn't the stock DWX be set up out of the box for minor loads?

[Archer]

Let me preface this by saying right up front that in my experience the DWX likes 124’s better than 147’s, in general.

 

A friend of mine (M class in USPSA and GM in SCSA) wanted to try one of my DWX-OR LO pistols against his Atlas Artemis LO rig, using his ~130 PF 124 loads with a couple of different cartridge lengths and coated bullets.  One specific load with a greater than CIP OAL and a wide ogive hung up on the lede, kind of like one might expect from a Shadow 2, but another load which was built to correct max OAL spec and a more conventional ogive profile fed fine.  
 

The Artemis (with a Romeo Max) and the DWX (with an SRO, LOK gridlocks & LOK magwell) had similar recoil characteristics, with a slight edge to the Artemis subjectively, but the DWX had a slightly lighter trigger (I have tuned it).   10 yard Bill drills and splits were generally a wash on the timer, from both of us, with either pistol.

 

We were indoors, so no Blake drills, but the DWX surprisingly held its own against the Atlas.  Of course the Atlas is a sweet, sweet pistol, and the safeties are much better for my large thumbs than the ones on the DWX, but for the nearly three times price difference, there was surprisingly little difference in timed performance with those low PF loads.  
 

Obviously, a comparison like this is perhaps a bit like comparing a Ferrari 458 Italia vs a Z06 Corvette - performance is similar, the differences are found in refinement, craftsmanship, prestige and price tag - but it was still interesting.

 

The point is that the DWX really didn’t seem to need any specific tuning for the lighter PF loads.

[DougCarden]

Try an 11lb recoil Spring.    That is all the gun needs from the box for 135PF ammo.

[Archer]

28 minutes ago, DougCarden said:

Try an 11lb recoil Spring.    That is all the gun needs from the box for 135PF ammo.

That's precisely what the gun is equipped with, out of the box, an 11 lb flat wire recoil spring.   

(18 lb mainspring, for those wondering)

 

I shot a LV2 match this past weekend with Kevin from W74, who runs the DWX like a boss, and he runs the OEM 11# spring on his guide rod.  No other mods besides LOK aluminum gridlock grips and the LOK TSO brass magwell.

Edited September 2 by Archer

[Marven1999]

On 8/30/2024 at 1:23 AM, Archer said:

Let me preface this by saying right up front that in my experience the DWX likes 124’s better than 147’s, in general.

 

A friend of mine (M class in USPSA and GM in SCSA) wanted to try one of my DWX-OR LO pistols against his Atlas Artemis LO rig, using his ~130 PF 124 loads with a couple of different cartridge lengths and coated bullets.  One specific load with a greater than CIP OAL and a wide ogive hung up on the lede, kind of like one might expect from a Shadow 2, but another load which was built to correct max OAL spec and a more conventional ogive profile fed fine.  
 

The Artemis (with a Romeo Max) and the DWX (with an SRO, LOK gridlocks & LOK magwell) had similar recoil characteristics, with a slight edge to the Artemis subjectively, but the DWX had a slightly lighter trigger (I have tuned it).   10 yard Bill drills and splits were generally a wash on the timer, from both of us, with either pistol.

 

We were indoors, so no Blake drills, but the DWX surprisingly held its own against the Atlas.  Of course the Atlas is a sweet, sweet pistol, and the safeties are much better for my large thumbs than the ones on the DWX, but for the nearly three times price difference, there was surprisingly little difference in timed performance with those low PF loads.  
 

Obviously, a comparison like this is perhaps a bit like comparing a Ferrari 458 Italia vs a Z06 Corvette - performance is similar, the differences are found in refinement, craftsmanship, prestige and price tag - but it was still interesting.

 

The point is that the DWX really didn’t seem to need any specific tuning for the lighter PF loads.

Thanks for the insight, I am a master class USPSA shooter myself so sometimes people like you and I might notice things that others aren't picking up on. A lot of people are saying it's good right out the box but obviously for us that's not the case. My trigger breaks at about 3 lb 10 oz, if I could just get that one pound lighter to 2 lb 10 oz I think I would be content. What did you do to tune your trigger? I'm hoping I can take a pound off without having to change out the hammer and sear because that would mean I would have to fit a new safety

[Marven1999]

On 9/2/2024 at 2:24 PM, DougCarden said:

Try an 11lb recoil Spring.    That is all the gun needs from the box for 135PF ammo.

Oh I definitely tried the 11, and I threw in a Cajun 10 lb and even and Eric grafel 9 lb. What will work isn't always what's the absolute best for what competitive shooter are looking for. Thanks for the answer though

[Archer]

17 hours ago, Marven1999 said:

Thanks for the insight, I am a master class USPSA shooter myself so sometimes people like you and I might notice things that others aren't picking up on. A lot of people are saying it's good right out the box but obviously for us that's not the case. My trigger breaks at about 3 lb 10 oz, if I could just get that one pound lighter to 2 lb 10 oz I think I would be content. What did you do to tune your trigger? I'm hoping I can take a pound off without having to change out the hammer and sear because that would mean I would have to fit a new safety

I got 2 lbs. 8 oz. -dead crisp- with nothing more than sear spring tuning. In my opinion, you do not want to touch the sear-hammer interface at all because DW uses a unique profile that looks more like (but is not the same as) a Harrison true radius interface.   Note this has been consistent with both guns, cumulative total of 3k rounds (and more dry fire),  no measurable change.  I did experience trigger-bounce induced hammer follow a couple times in testing at 2# with the pistol held in a vertical position (dry, muzzle down, slide drop from slide stop, finger off trigger) so I would be careful if going lighter.

[Marven1999]

On 9/4/2024 at 10:19 AM, Archer said:

I got 2 lbs. 8 oz. -dead crisp- with nothing more than sear spring tuning. In my opinion, you do not want to touch the sear-hammer interface at all because DW uses a unique profile that looks more like (but is not the same as) a Harrison true radius interface.   Note this has been consistent with both guns, cumulative total of 3k rounds (and more dry fire),  no measurable change.  I did experience trigger-bounce induced hammer follow a couple times in testing at 2# with the pistol held in a vertical position (dry, muzzle down, slide drop from slide stop, finger off trigger) so I would be careful if going lighter.

Thanks for all the little bits of information, I think I finally got it tuned up to where I want it. I was able to bend the factory spring a little bit and get the trigger to about 2 lb 12 oz but I would get the very rare hammer follow, I'm talking like once every 150 rounds and it would only fall to half cock. I bought a Wilson reduced power sear spring and was able to bend it to a 2lb 8 oz trigger and so far no Hammer follow at all. I was running an 8 lb 1911 spring and it felt pretty good so I figured why not try a 7 lb Progressive and it feels even better. I just hope I'm not battering the slide stop because I've read you can't buy basic replacement parts at all right now

Edited September 17 by Marven1999

[Archer]

You probably already know this by now, but for those who don’t, CZ is now selling replacement slide stops, ejectors and extractors.

[gairman]

On 8/29/2024 at 10:23 PM, Archer said:

Let me preface this by saying right up front that in my experience the DWX likes 124’s better than 147’s, in general.

 

A friend of mine (M class in USPSA and GM in SCSA) wanted to try one of my DWX-OR LO pistols against his Atlas Artemis LO rig, using his ~130 PF 124 loads with a couple of different cartridge lengths and coated bullets.  One specific load with a greater than CIP OAL and a wide ogive hung up on the lede, kind of like one might expect from a Shadow 2, but another load which was built to correct max OAL spec and a more conventional ogive profile fed fine.  
 

The Artemis (with a Romeo Max) and the DWX (with an SRO, LOK gridlocks & LOK magwell) had similar recoil characteristics, with a slight edge to the Artemis subjectively, but the DWX had a slightly lighter trigger (I have tuned it).   10 yard Bill drills and splits were generally a wash on the timer, from both of us, with either pistol.

 

We were indoors, so no Blake drills, but the DWX surprisingly held its own against the Atlas.  Of course the Atlas is a sweet, sweet pistol, and the safeties are much better for my large thumbs than the ones on the DWX, but for the nearly three times price difference, there was surprisingly little difference in timed performance with those low PF loads.  
 

Obviously, a comparison like this is perhaps a bit like comparing a Ferrari 458 Italia vs a Z06 Corvette - performance is similar, the differences are found in refinement, craftsmanship, prestige and price tag - but it was still interesting.

 

The point is that the DWX really didn’t seem to need any specific tuning for the lighter PF loads.

Wow. I didn't expect a DWX without Sight block to compare and compete so favorably with an Atlas Artemis. I've been looking into an Atlas and choking on the cost. But I prefer the fit/finish, DLC, general ergo's with the thumb safeties versus DWX. The 2011 parts compatibility with the DWX is not quite there is it? Although once a DWX is tuned the way you like it, maybe that doesn't matter? 

How easy is it to get mag extensions for higher capacity competition on a DWX Mag? 

[Archer]

On 10/11/2024 at 12:42 PM, gairman said:

Wow. I didn't expect a DWX without Sight block to compare and compete so favorably with an Atlas Artemis. I've been looking into an Atlas and choking on the cost. But I prefer the fit/finish, DLC, general ergo's with the thumb safeties versus DWX. The 2011 parts compatibility with the DWX is not quite there is it? Although once a DWX is tuned the way you like it, maybe that doesn't matter? 

How easy is it to get mag extensions for higher capacity competition on a DWX Mag? 

Neither did the Artemis owner

 

The DLC finish on the DWX in terms of quality and durability is on par with the Atlas, but of course the general feel of Atlas quality is undeniable.  Nothing feels quite like that buttery precision of the Atlas when you rack the slide. 

 

You can now get small parts such as ejectors, extractors, springs, slide stops and a fairly wide variety of triggers for the DWX, but still none f the superior thumb safety solutions you see for 2011’s.

 

One place where the DWX has an undeniable advantage is the magazine solutions, using the $26 P10F mags as a base.  For example I have had excellent 24+1 results with the Henning P10F extensions and MBX follower/spring, or a 22+1 solution with nothing other than the Henning extension.  As a practical matter this puts DWX competition mags at half the cost of typical extended capacity 2011 mags with zero need for tuning and relative indifference to dirt.  The P10F mag bodies themselves are as good a quality as any I have seen, really well made.

[Posvar]

Stock recoil spring and slide milled for SRO and it functions perfectly with 124 and 150 grain. It loves the 150 grain Federal Syntech. Is stock spring a 12#? Didn't see or feel the need the change the spring since it ran 110%. Super flat shooting.

 

Good to see wearable parts becoming available.