G34 Gen 5 Slides

[Kravi]

Hey folks, brand new to the forum, and brand new to USPSA (though I have my first local competition coming up in a few weeks). I've been shooting 2gun for a few years now and love it.

 

Anyhow, on that subject, I'm in process of building out a Carry Optics gun for USPSA. I've decided to go with a Gen 5 G34 because my carry guns are either a G19 or G45 (both Gen 5). I managed to snag a Gen 5 OEM G17 frame for dirt cheap, and am now looking to kit it out. I've found any number of G34 barrels from any number of purveyors, but slides seem to be in very short supply. I can't even find any OEM Gen 5 slides, and the only aftermarket ones I've seen are by ZEV and all sold out (and rather pricy).

 

Obviously in the interim I'll be shooting my G45 (with the original, unported slide/barrel), but come on, building guns is fun!

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks folks,

Adam

[DeepFried]

Second hand oem slide or a g17 slide would be my thought

[Kravi]

I can't even find any second hand OEM slides (which would be totally fine with me). As a practical consideration, when shooting with a red dot, how different is the g17 from the g34? I've heard some people say the g34 is smoother recoil impulse, and others say that there is no appreciable difference.

 

Thanks,

Adam

[DeepFried]

For me it’s negligible. Yes there is some change in impulse and rate at which the sights return.. spent last year on the G34 and have been contemplating using g17 as main gun this year to see if it matters. 

 

you mention being new. I wouldn’t worry about the gun one bit. Bring the g45 out and have some fun

[Kravi]

Fair enough. I'm new to USPSA. I've been shotting 2gun for a couple of years now - and our local matches use a lot of steel which is fun! In 2gun, though, I used to run a Walther PDP 5" with comp, DPSM recoil spring, brass magwell and backstrap, overwatch precision trigger, etc. Was like butter. But I don't trust it.

 

My carry guns are either a G19 or G45 kitted out the same (tungsten recoil rod with oem poundage), overwatch precision triggers (I LOOOOOOVE those triggers), slightly extended mag release, and milled to hold holosun 507c. So the two are identical twins, except that one has a slightly longer grip. I like having a single manual of arms for carry - I can go back and forth between the two seamlessly.

 

So for USPSA, I want something a little smoother than the G45, and was leaning towards a g34. I'd kit it out the same, though. Same trigger, same slightly extended mag release, same everything but length and weight. But the 17 seems to be almost indistinguishable from the 34 when shooting, so I'm on a fence. And I want to stick with the Glock platform (not because I think it is any better than any other modern gun) because there is carryover back and forth between my carry guns and my competition guns that way.

 

So now I need to meditate on whether to "compromise" on a G17 or wait 6 months (potentially) to find a g34 slide....

 

Cheers,

Adam

[dapribek]

I don’t think that there’s much of a difference. The 17 theoretically should transition more quickly from target to target. I’d consider adding weight to your 17 to help with recoil. A tungsten guide rod, light and thug slug would help a lot. Then you’ll be good to go!

[Kravi]

10 hours ago, dapribek said:

I don’t think that there’s much of a difference. The 17 theoretically should transition more quickly from target to target. I’d consider adding weight to your 17 to help with recoil. A tungsten guide rod, light and thug slug would help a lot. Then you’ll be good to go!

Yeah, I run tungsten on my carry guns too, so that is something I'd do here. With my carry guns, I run stock spring weights, though. Do you think, for a competition specific gun, it makes sense to have a slightly lighter spring weight? And if so, what? I'm new to the Glock 17 / 34 world. And yeah, I have a TlR-1 with this guns name on it already. Who makes a good thug plug? I bought a couple for my carry guns, but they ended up being super lightweight hollow alluminium, not what I was expecting!

 

Cheers,

Adam

[DeepFried]

CH brass plug is good and reasonably priced. 
 

spring depends on ammo. If shooting lighter loads dropping to lighter spring can help. In gen 5 I think 14-15lb is a good place. They don’t compress the spring as much as older hens and need another lb or 2 IMO. I also don’t chase going really light, doesn’t provide benefit for me.
 

Shot bone stock g34.5 for a long time. Adding some weight and recoil spring is nice but didn’t make much score improvement 

[Kravi]

Yeah, I'll probably just stick with a standard weight spring, and use tungsten to add some weight. And balance it with a thug plug.

 

Cheers!

Adam

[kerneldrop]

I have a G34 Gen5 for CO.  It's what I had so I went with it.

The shooter will determine the performance advantage in the G17 vs G34. Really even G45 vs G17 vs G34

The edge will be mental, not physical. 

My friend shoots his G17 faster and more accurately than I shoot my G34. 

 

I've got a Carver Tungston guide rod, 13# recoil spring, CHP brass plug, FCD plate, Glock Performance Trigger + Vex shoe + Ghost trigger bar, wrapped in 3m grip tape from home depot, TF & Henning magazine extensions.

 

17# recoil spring causes my muzzle to dip, but that's based on my mechanics....yours may vary. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8 by kerneldrop

[Kravi]

16 minutes ago, kerneldrop said:

I have a G34 Gen5 for CO.  It's what I had so I went with it.

The shooter will determine the performance advantage in the G17 vs G34. Really even G45 vs G17 vs G34

The edge will be mental, not physical. 

My friend shoots his G17 faster and more accurately than I shoot my G34. 

 

I've got a Carver Tungston guide rod, 13# recoil spring, CHP brass plug, FCD plate, Glock Performance Trigger + Vex shoe + Ghost trigger bar, wrapped in 3m grip tape from home depot, TF & Henning magazine extensions.

 

17# recoil spring causes my muzzle to dip, but that's based on my mechanics....yours may vary. 

 

 

That's great feedback, thanks. You have a nice setup. My plan is to do the thug plug to balance out the tungsten guide rod, I'm sticking with an Overwatch Precision trigger kit with coated safety plunger (same as my carry guns, and I love it). So question: I've stippled my carry guns (and done a very tidy job of it, if I may say so myself). Do you think that grip tape is better than a good stipple job? And why does that sound dirty?

 

I do tend to have a bit of nose diving action when I'm doing cadence or doubles - not sure how much that is because the gun lost balance (I've got tungsten guide rods, but no thug plug to restore balance) verse just crappy mechanics on my part.

 

Cheers,

Adam

[kerneldrop]

Not all grip tape is the same grit. 

If you need more friction then you may should try something else. 

There's plenty of folks that don't use tape. 

[DeepFried]

10 minutes ago, kerneldrop said:

Not all grip tape is the same grit. 

If you need more friction then you may should try something else. 

There's plenty of folks that don't use tape. 

Can you share some more info and pics of your grip tape? Our setups are very similar, my talon grips are wearing out. 

[kerneldrop]

13 hours ago, Seoderus said:

Can you share some more info and pics of your grip tape? Our setups are very similar, my talon grips are wearing out. 

 

Skateboard tape is an option, too. 

lifting/climbing chalk, too. 

 

Here's one found at Home Depot...it's more aggressive than Talon Granular: https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-2-in-x-15-ft-Safety-Walk-Step-and-Ladder-Tread-Tape-7635NA/100132176

 

Here's a super aggressive 80 grit found at Home Depot...this would chew up my hands but I may have soft delicate hands: https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Safety-Walk-Slip-Resistant-Step-and-Reflective-Tread-6-in-x-2-ft-7768NA/100391699#overlay

 

I left tape off the back....I'll add it if i feel like i need it. 

I cut it with scissors. 

I'm not pick about looks. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9 by kerneldrop

[kerneldrop]

13 hours ago, Seoderus said:

Can you share some more info and pics of your grip tape? Our setups are very similar, my talon grips are wearing out. 

 

I try to use Hwansik Kim's pull grip...so i probably should add a strip to the back. I'll play with it. 

He doesn't use tape but I don't have a billion hours of grip training like him. 

Edited January 9 by kerneldrop

[gigamortis]

I shot a G34.4 for years with both 11, 12, and 13# recoil springs.  The tightest 5 shot fast speed grouping I can do with it was with 125g bullets, tungsten guide rod, and a Wolff 12# spring.  I then came across a G17.5.  Various testing with bullet weights and springs with the G17.5 ended up with 147gr bullets and the stock recoil spring.  It tracks and follows up even tighter than my best combo with the G34.4.  I even ran an ISMI 13# spring on a steel guide rod with the same results.  Keep in mind that any aftermarket spring used in a Gen 5 full size frame is going to need a .240" spacer to be at Gen 4 and earlier assembled spring length.  The longer recoil spring assembly of the Gen 5 17 certainly flattens out the recoil impulse better than previous generations. 

 

My G34.4 just sits in the safe now.  The G17.5 has certainly outperformed it.  If I were you, I would get a Zev Gen 5 17 slide with the RMR cut.  Zev seems to offer the lowest cut for an optic.

[Kravi]

28 minutes ago, gigamortis said:

I shot a G34.4 for years with both 11, 12, and 13# recoil springs.  The tightest 5 shot fast speed grouping I can do with it was with 125g bullets, tungsten guide rod, and a Wolff 12# spring.  I then came across a G17.5.  Various testing with bullet weights and springs with the G17.5 ended up with 147gr bullets and the stock recoil spring.  It tracks and follows up even tighter than my best combo with the G34.4.  I even ran an ISMI 13# spring on a steel guide rod with the same results.  Keep in mind that any aftermarket spring used in a Gen 5 full size frame is going to need a .240" spacer to be at Gen 4 and earlier assembled spring length.  The longer recoil spring assembly of the Gen 5 17 certainly flattens out the recoil impulse better than previous generations. 

 

My G34.4 just sits in the safe now.  The G17.5 has certainly outperformed it.  If I were you, I would get a Zev Gen 5 17 slide with the RMR cut.  Zev seems to offer the lowest cut for an optic.

I'd love to get more details if you were willing to share. Did you test your g17.5 with tungsten using multiple spring weights as well as stock as well as steel with multiple spring rates? Not criticizing, but genuinely curious as to how it played out. I'd love to see the data if you'd be willing to share. That could be a gold mine of great info!

 

I'm not sure what you meant by putting on a .240" spacer? I'm buying gen5 recoil spring(s) so I'm assuming they wouldn't need a spacer? Or did you simply mean that the gen5s are longer and therefore for apples to apples you'd need a spacer?

 

I settled on a 17.5 frame from slideworks. I know they have a sketchy customer service reputation, but the slide was already built and had everything I wanted. And was half the price of a Zev. And yes, I am aware that we generally get what we pay for, but I'm willing to gamble a little. If it doesn't perform flawlessly, I'm sending it back! Not sure if the RMR cut is as low as Zev's, but I'm certain it will be better than an MOS option  My carry glocks were both milled by a company called "battlewerx" and the quality of the RMR cuts was second to none.

 

As an aside, Faxxon always had a great reputation for barrels. Are they still top tier? 

 

Cheers,

Adam

[gigamortis]

I've seen a lot of Glock parts outlets offering recoil springs and guide rods for the Gen 5s, but with them they barely make the Gen 5 guns cam up into battery.  I cut a spacer on the lathe to make up for the Gen4 vs Gen 5 difference and the slide tension at barrel lockup is identical to the same springs in my Gen 4s without the spacer.  Slide tension with the slide to the rear was identical with the spacer in the Gen 5 as the Gen 4 gun with no spacer.  I don't think the aftermarket is quite aware of the recoil spring length difference between the two yet.

 

I tried a tungsten guide rod in my G17.5 with a Wolff 12# spring just like I was running in my G34.4, but with the spacer to achieve proper assembled length.  My rapid fire 5 shot groups opened up.  I could put the stock Gen 5 dual spring back in or the Jager steel guide rod, spacer, and 13# ISMI spring, and my high speed groups tightened back up.  I can literally take one sight picture at 10 yards and just keep squeezing the trigger for 5 rounds and they all stay within an IDPA target down zero zone easily.  Pretty much a 4" group.  This is with 147gr loads.  125gr loads opened up a little outside of the down zero zone.  My G34.4 with the tungsten GR runs the 125s at speed tighter than the G17.5 will (about a 6" group), but with 147s the G17.5 is the ultimate performer between the two.

 

My shooting peers at the matches I go to are always asking how I got my G17.5 running so flat.  I just tell them a stock dual spring guide rod and 147s is all that's done - nothing special.  Just run your favorite trigger setup in a G17.5 with 147s and enjoy.  My relative placements in matches have also moved up anywhere from 2 to 5 places against the same group of shooters since I switched from the G34.4 to the G17.5.

Edited January 10 by gigamortis

[Kravi]

@gigamortis I'm impressed, that was a lot of good info.

 

On my carry guns I've been running the Glock Store tungsten guide rods with 18lb springs (default spring weight for G19/G45 which are my two carry guns). Other than the Overwatch trigger kit (and coated safety plunger), they are pretty much stock. Ok, fine, with my stubby fingers I have an extended OEM slide release on 'em, and an NDZ "plus" mag release (their supersized one didn't work for me, I'd always drop mags when gripping, but the plus, which is more extended than stock - and more comfortable, works brilliantly for me). My point is that I haven't had issues with the Glock Store captured guide rods.

 

So I was thinking of starting with the same setup for my "in progress" competition gun, the 17.5. Overwatch trigger kit and plunger, NDZ plus mag release, extended slide stop, the Glock Store tungsten guide rod (it is built to exact same size and spring weight as the OEM plastic one, just with tungsten), a thug plug and... I think that's it. I'm going to test, though, as per your recommendation, stock guide rod vs tungsten, both with and without thug plug, and see where I land. I love getting data.

 

I just built out a new ported barrel and slide for my carry guns and ran tests with stock vs ported barrel and slide, and got consistent time improvements on bill drills with the ported. And I did it in a way where I was swapping the slides back and forth (same optic on both slides, both mounted to the exact same lower), and where I would shoot back and forth between them. I ran ported, than stock, rinse and repeat 4 more times, drop the lowest two scores from both, and compare. After doing a warmup before even starting that doing the same drill but not recording the score. Was fun!

 

Cheers,

Adam

[gigamortis]

Speaking of grip slug plugs, I tried a tungsten one in both my G34.4 and G17.5.  Tracking and group size suffered for me versus without.  Save your money unless you already have one on hand to evaluate. 

 

The only changes I have done to my G17.5 is my trigger setup of choice, Ghost 3.3 connector,  and a 4.5# striker spring.  This G17.5 is surprisingly true to the Glock "Perfection" moniker straight out of the box that I have experienced. 

Edited January 10 by gigamortis

[Kravi]

I ordered one already. I figure I'd try with and without, against a tungsten guide rod and a stock guide rod, and see what works for me. For $20 or whatever, it is worth it for experimentation. Recoil management / grip has always been my weakness, so I tend to chase recoil reduction more than anything.

 

I've lately had a personal revolution in how I grip, but I haven't yet field tested it in a competition. If it works as well as it has been in training, then I can cheerfully not chase "recoil reduction wonders"! I'll find out Saturday....

 

Cheers,

Adam

[kerneldrop]

3 minutes ago, Kravi said:

Recoil management / grip has always been my weakness, so I tend to chase recoil reduction more than anything.

 

I've lately had a personal revolution in how I grip, but I haven't yet field tested it in a competition. If it works as well as it has been in training, then I can cheerfully not chase "recoil reduction wonders"! I'll find out Saturday....

 

1) get 147 grain ammo

2) See if this video by Hwansik Kim interests you. It was worth it for me. 

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/recoilmanagementseries

 

[Kravi]

Thanks! I'll pick up some 147 grain and give it a try. Won't be *switching over* until I burn through my current small mountain of 124 gr, I'm afraid. 

 

I'll check out the video. $20 won't break the bank.

 

Cheers,

Adam

[andy27al]

+1 on the 147s. There is a bit of a cost difference but it’s relatively negligible for what I believe to be a pretty solid improvement.

 

It’s all I will run nowadays for my CO Glock 

[kerneldrop]

19 hours ago, Kravi said:

As an aside, Faxxon always had a great reputation for barrels. Are they still top tier? 

 

 

Can you order a Glock OEM barrel? 

I come from the benchrest world so I'm a barrel snob...with that said, I don't know much about aftermarket pistol barrels. 

To know who's elite, you would have to see who CNCs their barrels and where they get the metals from. Consistency and finishing are pretty much everything, once you have a barrel fit to the proper dimensions. If the barrel is button, which I imagine is the case for pistols barrels, then the button quality, heat treat and lapping will separate the elite from just average.  There's a lot to a truly elite barrel.  And an elite barrel with average ammo turns into an average barrel

 

I've only used KKM and Stormlake aftermarket barrels.  Stormlake isn't around, but KKM is. 

Here is a 34.5 KKM barrel: https://kkmprecision.com/product/gen-5-glock-34-match-9mm/

They also have a G17 should you decide to go that route.