Hammer Spur

[dgsmith]

Hey you rule nuts?

I thought I had read that you have to keep the hammer spur on in IPSC, but unless I am having a senior moment, I can not find that now in the rules. How many of you IPSC guys have cut off the hammer spur?

Dennis

[D.carden]

I'd say damn near all of us but a few run spurless...

[Carmoney]

Dennis, my hammer spur (and everything else I could cut away along with it) is long gone.

Perfectly legal in both IPSC and USPSA.

App. D5 (p. 93) and D10, Rule 19 (p. 99): Modifications which are permitted are limited to: (19.1) Replacement of, or modification to, sights, hammers and cylinder releases . . . .

Why do you ask?

Mike

[dgsmith]

Mike ,

Just did not want to go outside of rules. Also figured I could go a little lighter on trigger pull. By the way I look foward to shooting with you again, now that I have a few things straight now.

[Carmoney]

Mike ,

Just did not want to go outside of rules. Also figured I could go a little lighter on trigger pull.  By the way I look foward to shooting with you again, now that I have a few things straight now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gotcha, Dennis, I was afraid somebody was hassling you about it--glad that's not the case. You can cut quite a bit of hammer meat away, and it does help speed up lock-time and give you a bit more leeway on lightening up the DA pull, and lightens up the impact of the hammer fall noticeably.

Pictured below are a couple examples of my "poor man's hammer happiness." I've chopped the hammer on the 627 even more since the photo was taken.

[dgsmith]

Gee Mike that one on the blued gun almost scares me. I would be worried that something would fall in and jam up the works. I like the looks of the other hammer. Did you use milling machine or dremel?

Dennis

[spook]

I still have the spur. I use it to transfer the gun from my strong hand to my weak hand. Also, I use it to check if my clips are bent. It's safer than pulling back the trigger a little.

[Revorbaro]

I still have the spur. I use it to transfer the gun from my strong hand to my weak hand. Also, I use it to check if my clips are bent. It's safer than pulling back the trigger a little.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Spook,

I bobber the hammer and now the trigger is very smooth, I'm not problem to transfer the gun from right to left hand.

I have a question, is it possible change the original cylinder with Ti, the rule permitted this?

Best, Igor

[spook]

I still have the spur. I use it to transfer the gun from my strong hand to my weak hand. Also, I use it to check if my clips are bent. It's safer than pulling back the trigger a little.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Spook,

I bobber the hammer and now the trigger is very smooth, I'm not problem to transfer the gun from right to left hand.

I have a question, is it possible change the original cylinder with Ti, the rule permitted this?

Best, Igor

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Igor,

The rules permit the Ti cylinder ONLY IF S&W ever offered the 625 in that configuration. You will have to ask the factory if they ever made a gun like that.

I did the same thing for my wide serrated trigger. Got an email back that they made 625 with those triggers, so I was good to go

Bjorn

[Carmoney]

Gee Mike that one on the blued gun almost scares me.  I would be worried that something would fall in and jam up the works. I like the looks of the other hammer. Did you use milling machine or dremel?

Dennis

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The hammers on both 627s and my 625 (my IPSC gun) now have the same general shape as what you see in the blued gun in the picture. I've always bobbed off the spurs on my competition guns, but when I saw the revos Randy brought with him last year to the Steel Challenge I decided to get more radical. The actual shape on mine is modeled after a picture of a Bob Day PPC conversion I found in a 25-year-old copy of "Law Enforcement Handgun Digest" by Jack Lewis.

I never got too excited about an object falling in, but thought I might have to take off the sideplate and do a thorough internal cleaning a little more often. As it turns out, I can't see any difference, and the guns don't seem to dirty up any faster, and I don't worry about it a bit.

As you can see from the picture, I found other areas of the hammer that can be buzzed away, not just the area exposed along the top. Along the way, I learned don't get too close to the top of the back of the hammer, or it will break though where the hammer nose pivots back (on the older hammer-mounted FP guns), and don't get too close to the back of the channel where the sear spring rides.

Mine are all done with a dremel tool and cut-off wheel. Gotta go slow and keep the hammer fairly cool when doing this.

[Carmoney]

I use it to check if my clips are bent. It's safer than pulling back the trigger a little.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with this, particularly since the rules can be interpreted to prohibit the introduction of the finger into the trigger guard during the loading process. Back when I was a pin-shooter, I always pulled back the trigger slightly and spun the cylinder to make sure everything was rotating properly. Now, I have all my moonclips loaded up before the match, and test every one of them the night before to make sure they're drop right in. This is a better practice anyway, it would seem, since you're not going to be able to do the spin-check on anything other than your first moonclip on each stage, right?

[spook]

I use it to check if my clips are bent. It's safer than pulling back the trigger a little.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with this, particularly since the rules can be interpreted to prohibit the introduction of the finger into the trigger guard during the loading process. Back when I was a pin-shooter, I always pulled back the trigger slightly and spun the cylinder to make sure everything was rotating properly. Now, I have all my moonclips loaded up before the match, and test every one of them the night before to make sure they're drop right in. This is a better practice anyway, it would seem, since you're not going to be able to do the spin-check on anything other than your first moonclip on each stage, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I also check the night before... I guess it's something all of us revolverinos can identify with; "Checking the clips the night before"

Anyways, I might be a pussy, but I'd be just as scared to put a hole in the hotel room wall as to have an AD online

The small hammers look great. I have an old old 625 sitting in my safe that I am going to butcher tomorrow. I hope the result will be as good as your guns (anyone who has ever seen me wield a powertool, please stop lauging )

[Patrick Sweeney]

There's a case called a "Safe Direction Case" (from Safe Direction LLC) which is a kevlar-lined gun case. It is made for CCW folks who have to load and unload on a regular basis. Put the muzzle against the case and do what ya gotta do.

Shoot the case and you have a ragged case, noise, and no other damage. (Except perhaps to your shorts.)

It would also work for spur-less moonclip checks.

As my one-and-only AD came with a spurless 25-2 pin gun, checking for free-spinning moons, I of course have one.

Edited September 23, 2005 by Patrick Sweeney

[Carmoney]

Y'know, I've pretty much stopped doing the spin test.

As long as my primers are properly seated (and they are), I will simply open the cylinder of the gun, and drop each moonclip in to make sure it bottoms out nicely.

After you do this a thousand times, you can always tell if there's a problem (whether a bent moon or bulgy round) from the feel and the sound, even without closing the cylinder.

Besides, as has been mentioned in one other post, the cool-guy spin followed by releasing the hammer and having the cylinder clunk to a hard stop is probably one of the reason some of you fellas' guns are getting so peened-up.

[rwmagnus]

Carmoney,

Guess I've been too much a traditionalist but you've got me thinking. Everyone here has been in search of the "Holly Grail" of triggers. Seems like until 1/2lb is reached reliabily the quest continues. Funny thing a few months ago I used a new 627 in a steel match, gun was new to me but the previous owner didn't do anything to it...bone stock...12lb trigger. I won the match by 8 seconds, a land slide. Don't get me wrong that 12lb trigger was stout but in the heat of the moment I really didn't feel it. Most of my revolvers are in the 6-7 pound range but very smooth.

My questions are: 1. Bobbing the hammer a 625 with a 6lb trigger might have what effect (in your opinion) on the trigger pull? Just looking for an estimate not a guarantee .

2. How do you post expandable thumnail pictures on the forum like the ones you did here? I know how to post links and pics, but the thumbnail ones are pretty cool.

Thanks

[Carmoney]

rwmagnus, right here on this "add reply" page, just above where I will eventually click "add reply," is an Attachments box. Click "browse", find the picture or other attachment on your cpu, then click "add this attachment". Wait for it to upload, then when you're all done, hit "add reply" and it's posted!

Regarding hammers, keep in mind that a lighter hammer will not in and of itself lighten the DA pull. But it will allow you to lighten up the pull a little more by messing with the springs (quarter to half a pound maybe, ask Randy what he thinks) and still get 100% ignition.

My DA triggers are like 5.5 maybe 6 pounds, and are absolutely reliable. I've known most of the guys with the guns down in the sub-5 range to have an occasional click at a match....(no names will be disclosed, but they know who they are....) I am not interested in a gun that will misfire even 1 out of a 1000 shots, but I know some who will accept that in exchange for a super-light trigger.

A 12-pound pull is unnecessarily heavy for anything we're doing here. Even Jerry has admitted he's "outgrown" the heavy trigger pull thing. Up close and dirty, it probably really doesn't matter. Try to snipe head shots on metric targets at 25 yards, or nail the "speed option" plate at Steel Challenge, and you'll really learn to appreciate a smooth--and light--trigger pull.

rwmagnus, I would think your guns are fine at 6 or 7 pounds. You're not going to gain all that much with a bob job, but you might like it anyway. Part of why I do it is to get that dang spur away from the web of my hand when I happen to get a high grip (and I'd always rather grip it a little too high out of the holster than a little too low, know what I mean?)

Mike

[Patrick Sweeney]

My trigger pull at WSXIV was full power factory stock. And boy, did I notice it. Before the next one, I'm going lighter. But not in a quest for the lightest possible. Just lighter than 12, and 100% reliable.

I'm too much of a traditionalist to stop doing the spin test, but then I never let go of the cylinder sotp to stop the cylinder. I always let it stop on its own before releasing the hammer.

When I go spurless, I'm going to make a gizmo to stop hammer travel while spin checking. Gotta do something in the hotel room the night before a match besides surf through the cable channels.

[rwmagnus]

carmoney thanks for the posting instructions, never noticed that "Attachment" box before.

Yep I 100% agree with a 12 pound trigger but that's what the factory provided...lawyers you know I've done trigger jobs on everything but this revolver maybe this weekend I'll get around to it. Heck I think I'll even set it up with a C-More.

I'm guessing you take off the single action knotch in your bob-job.? Guess if you're getting rid of weight this is weight. Some how I cringe at cutting the spur of my 25-2. The traditionalist in me is hard to beat back for these modifications.

Are you going to Area 2?

[Carmoney]

I do take out the single-action cocking notch when I'm doing the Bobbit-job. (OK, now we're all cringing......)

If you don't want to cut the parts in the gun, you can always find some replacement parts at a gun show and fit them--that way you can still go back. I don't worry about it, in fact I'm to the point where I prefer the bobbed looked.

I would dearly love to shoot A-2, but couldn't sell the idea to my accountant. As it stands right now, I've been using those dang credit cards so much they've about turned into a melted mass of plastic in my wallet. I think I'm gonna have to pass on the Florida Open for the same reason. Next year I'm going to have to tone down the travela little. It sure has been a fun shooting year so far, though!

Mike

[spook]

Carmoney,

Funny thing a few months ago I used a new 627 in a steel match, gun was new to me but the previous owner didn't do anything to it...bone stock...12lb trigger. I won the match by 8 seconds, a land slide. Don't get me wrong that 12lb trigger was stout but in the heat of the moment I really didn't feel it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FWIW, Ricardo Lopez shot a 12 lbs. trigger at the last WS. 96+% of Miculek isn't too shabby

[diehli]

Carmoney,

Funny thing a few months ago I used a new 627 in a steel match, gun was new to me but the previous owner didn't do anything to it...bone stock...12lb trigger. I won the match by 8 seconds, a land slide. Don't get me wrong that 12lb trigger was stout but in the heat of the moment I really didn't feel it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FWIW, Ricardo Lopez shot a 12 lbs. trigger at the last WS. 96+% of Miculek isn't too shabby

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That just means he's a man... a manly man... a man in tights... tight tights.

[spook]

Carmoney,

Funny thing a few months ago I used a new 627 in a steel match, gun was new to me but the previous owner didn't do anything to it...bone stock...12lb trigger. I won the match by 8 seconds, a land slide. Don't get me wrong that 12lb trigger was stout but in the heat of the moment I really didn't feel it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FWIW, Ricardo Lopez shot a 12 lbs. trigger at the last WS. 96+% of Miculek isn't too shabby

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That just means he's a man... a manly man... a man in tights... tight tights.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Roaming the forest for fights? Well, he might look like a sissy, but he will put out your lights

[diehli]

Carmoney,

Funny thing a few months ago I used a new 627 in a steel match, gun was new to me but the previous owner didn't do anything to it...bone stock...12lb trigger. I won the match by 8 seconds, a land slide. Don't get me wrong that 12lb trigger was stout but in the heat of the moment I really didn't feel it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FWIW, Ricardo Lopez shot a 12 lbs. trigger at the last WS. 96+% of Miculek isn't too shabby

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That just means he's a man... a manly man... a man in tights... tight tights.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Roaming the forest for fights? Well, he might look like a sissy, but he will put out your lights

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude, you gots to be my brother from another mother.

[spook]