Small Hands

[RayKu]

For someone with small hands, I have been wondering about the position of my weak hand. Is it better to have the weak hand as high up on the grip as possible with the strong hand which would leave some space between the grip and the magwell? Or, is it better to grip a little lower and touch the magwel so that both hands form a grip that provides more leverage during recoil?

Thanks in advance!

[jessej]

I have small hands also. I've found that keeping the hands together as high as possible works for me. There is quite a gap between my left hand and the magwell. I remember learning from the Burner videos that you may cam your support wrist down to get more leverage on the gun. Why not try it out both ways to see which one you like best? Good luck on your quest.

[Rikarin]

Oh, I totally understand the frustaration! I have been experimenting non-stop.

I don't care if space between hands and mag-well. I was told by many thats not important. High as possible is important.

Right hand as high as possible. This one doesn't change. Where left hand goes - right now, my left hand and right hand doesn't meet at the bottom of the thumb/palm, which Matt told me to do. Rather, I slide left hand forward so that fingeres wrap around to the right side of the gun more. By doing so, I can "pinch" the gun SIDE-to-SIDE, which Brian said is important for left hand to do.

Isn't mag change problem? We have to flip the gun to reach for the mag release! I thought I was inovative pushing the release with my left thumb, elieminating the need to flip the gun and disturb the grip.... Then, Robbie told me thats not good. I was protesting but apprantely he has small hands and he flips the gun too.....

I still want to see that big TGO needs to flip to reach mag release to believe though!

[Carlos]

Yo Rik! Good advice! I will add the following suggestions:

Ray: WHatever improvements you make to the grip can generally be enhanced by the use of an abrassive tape like Eric Wesselman's Glock grip tape. Ray, you did not mention what gun we are talking about but I have grip tape on nearly every pistol I own.

- if you are in the market for a gun with naturally small grip, take a look at the excellent Steyr M9. A BE.com member & Air Force Marksmanship Unit member (Tom Freeman) used the Steyr to earn his Master hard in USPSA so the gun has been proven capable. It also has an extrmely LOW bore axis for almost NO flip. As long as you are OK with a plastic framed pistol made & designed in Austria and with a Tennifer finish (gee - just like Glock) then the Steyr deserves a look.

Regards, C.

[Pierruiggi]

Where left hand goes - right now, my left hand and right hand doesn't meet at the bottom of the thumb/palm, which Matt told me to do.  Rather, I slide left hand forward so that fingeres wrap around to the right side of the gun more.  By doing so, I  can "pinch" the gun SIDE-to-SIDE, which Brian said is important for left hand to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How interesting. My experimentation proved the opposite to be true for me. I control the gun better, more neutral and without excessive muscle by making sure both hands touch the backside of the gun. (Obviiously the right hand, strong one for me, is going to touch it more but... well... you know what I mean)

But anyways, I have big hands. Big like "stock para-ord with factory grips feel kinda small" big.

[EricW]

Principles of gripping the gun for those of us with size-challenged hands:

- Rotate your strong hand around the gun to get more finger on the trigger if you need the leverage. This will help your trigger control and help avoid "milking" the gun when you pull the trigger.

- The heel of the weak hand ALWAYS has even contact with the heel of your strong hand. This is absolutely critical to indexing the gun on the draw. Look up at Brian's hands. That is what you do. Don't do any goofy gun magazine or Hollweird BS with your weak hand.

- Both hands are as high on the gun as possible.

- Buy a gun that fits your hand, dangit! If you have small hands, you're going to have a hell of a time shooting a G21 or a Sig.

Grip circumferences from what feels biggest to smallest for me:

- Glock 20/21 - 1st gen

- Glock 20/21 - 3rd gen / Any doublestack Sig

- Glock 17/22/34/35

- STI/SV

- Glock 19

- 1911

- Beretta 92

- XD/HS2000

The last 3 are all pretty close to one another.

Yes, grip juju will help you control a gun that is a little on the large side for you. I don't think that's the right approach unless you're an LEO and have no choice in what you shoot. Buy gun that fits your hand, THEN worry about the grip juju.

If your G17 is too big, trade it in on a XD or a Para LDA. It's just a tool. It makes holes in targets. Don't let it become a religion.

[RayKu]

Thanks everyone. Primarily I shoot an SVI 40 in limited and limited ten. I am in the process of trading my production gun a Walther P99 for an XD. The SVI has a scotts grip which I undercut and relieved portions of the front of the grip for a better feel for my strong hand. So Carlos, I am totally with you on the abrasive feel, and when I get the XD I will be using grip tape on that as well.

Riki: I too have found that sliding my weak hand forward some more helps me to provide more neutral side to side pressure. Otherwise I had a tendency to push a little too much on the backstrap with my weak hand. Interestingly, after experimenting with a right side catch and different extended mag released, I found that I actually did not have a problem with the mag releaseas long as my strong hand was positioned properly. My problem is a short trigger finger which was a real problem with the first DA pull on the walther. On the SV I used a short insert whichI then dremmeled to provide as much relief as possible. Seems to work so far.

Hopefully today, I will be able to try out both with MB's timing drill.

[RayKu]

Thanks Eric. I am not LEO so I am not wedded to any pistol except financially.

[RayKu]

There is a reason TGO and BE recommend keeping the left hand as high as possible. It works much better even for smaller hands. Playing with the lowered weak hand grip during my local weekend match led to a couple of observations. First, a lowered weakhand did in fact make it a little easier to control verticle muzzle flip. However, any benefit in muzzle flip control was outweighed by a loss in accuracy. It was more difficult to return the sight to a proper horizontal alignment.

[Rikarin]

Interesting....I mean forward by more like rotating left hand wrist forward and down. I think I used to drop wrist more.

I will experiment too. thanks!

[Newguy]

I also have small hands, a short index finger, and shoot a d/s STI. Two things really helped. First, was using a short solid Dlask trigger. Because its solid you can dremel it down much shorter than an Infiity or STI trigger.

Second is Jim Stranahan's grip sculpting. http://www.advancedperformanceshooting.com/

I don't know how he does it, but the grip he cut really made a big difference. I can now grip the gun in the web of my hand and still have enough trigger finger left to use the middle of the pad.

[RayKu]

Newguy,

Thanks for the Dlask suggestion. I have dremmeld the svi trigger as fare as it will go so it is good to know about some alternatives. While do not have one of Jim's grips, I would second your recommendation. He does great work, and is a class guy. I just bought a pistol from a friend that has a standard S_I grip, and will be sending it to him.

PS. EricW. Just put on your grip tape for my XD. Great stuff!

[Paladin]

EricW: did I see right, the Beretta grip felt smallest??? also how did you find the G19 grip..it hurts my hand because the hump really pushes against the bottom of my hand..the hump on the g26 rights in the middle of my palm and the hump on the g17 is lower so it doesnt push on the bottom of my hand so much..

[safe shooting]

Hi, I'm new here;this is my first post. As a member of the small hands club, I can sympathise with you.

I recently bought a Kimber TLE II. The Pistol shot flawlessly but the trigger reach was about 3/4 of an inch too long to what I usually use in the 1911. I was shooting a GI .45 my father left me.

I took the easy way out. After I had about 500 rounds through the Kimber with no malfunctions, I sent it back to them to get the "small hands package".

The cost was $209 plus shipping. They installed a short trigger, ultra thin wooden grips and an Ed Brown safety grip that sits higher and deeper than the original grip.

The Kimber fits my hands perfectly now. I have over 500 more rounds fired with no malfunctions since the modification.

I probably could have saved some money if I ordered the small hands package when I first ordered the pistol through my dealer; Kimber sent back the original grips, trigger and safety grip when they returned the pistol to me. It was about a 5 working day turn around time.

If that's too steep for your wallet, then try thin grips and a short trigger.

Good Luck

[Newguy]

Eric,

Your list is odd, at least for me. For me, from SMALLEST to LARGEST

Steyr M9

1911 configured for small hands -- extra short trigger & very thin grips

Springfield XD and Glock 34

Browning HP -- thin grips

STI/SVI w/ reconfigured grip

Beretta 92, Sigs, fat Glocks, Tanfo/EAA, H&K, Ruger, etc. are out of the running

There are three factors -- the hand size, the index finger length, and how the gun indexes for you. The biggest problem for me isn't the grip width, but the trigger reach. For example, I find the G34 fits my hand better than the XD. The Steyr M9 definitely felt the best. I own a custom single stack 1911 (modified by Virgil Tripp for a small-handed shooter), STIs with radically reconfigured grips, and a G34. For whatever reason -- which I don't fully understand -- the G34 (my cheapest gun) feels the most comfortable and indexes better for me than the others. It doesn't necessarily mean that I shoot it better, probably because of the trigger and the lack of accuracy compared to my other guns.

The problem with deciding on the "the right gun" is that's it's hard to know how a gun really feels until you've cozied up to it, which usually takes quite a few rounds of live fire. IMHO how the gun feels in a gunstore is very different than how it will feel on the range after a couple of hundred rounds. I've bought and sold quite a few guns that felt great in the store but didn't feel right in live fire.