Siaga Vs. 1100 With Speedloaders?

[JAG]

I have been told that a Siaga 20 with mags will out shoot an 1100 with speedloaders in a 20-30 round course.

I defend the 1100 whole heartedly, but thought I would ask the experts here.

Well?

Thanks

JAG

[George]

It depends on:

- Who is shooting the 1100

- Whether the Saiga runs the course without choking

- Whether there is a slug select required

- Whether you get to start loaded, or not

The Saiga is a holy terror when all you need to do is burn shotshells and it runs 100%. I have never seen one run 100% in a match. I have seen them make it through stages, but not through entire matches without malfing.

Mag changes are slick if done well, a real PITA if not. I have seldom seen them done well, and never 100% throughout a match. If there are slug selects required within a course of fire, the mag change to slugs and back to shot is not very pretty compared to a tube feeder.

It is a promising platform, but not a clear cut winner by any means. It does favor the straightup field course over more technical courses.

A little story about mag fed shotguns against 1100's. Back in the early 90's I borrowed a USAS12 and took it to a large 3 gun match where I knew they were going to run a 30+ round shotgun field course. At the end of the first day, I had that sucka' nailed, or so I thought. Mike Voigt came through the next morning and took ten+ seconds off my time with an 1100 and speedloaders.

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Regards,

[Wakal]

My club has some shooters with interesting firearms. One USAS, two Saiga-20's (one with a comp and a "melted" dot), one Saiga-12 (with a comp and "melted" dot), and a pair of pistol-grip Saiga-12 conversions.

With shooters of equal ability, the edge goes to the mag-fed shotgun UNLESS the stage designer does the "screw the mag fed shotgun" game of a load-one shoot-one load-one shoot-one course of fire (or a stage with all the rounds to be used starting loose in, say, a saddlebag). Short courses, there is no difference. Over a long course, though, having to make on mag change over two speed loads is an advantage, all things being equal.

Take, for example, last year's Cav Arms match and their 30-round shotgun stage. I beat a shooter that, frankly, I have no honest reason to beat (James Darst is a far better shotgun shooter than I am) by a solid two seconds and factored the stage...just because of reloads. James had to make...many...and I had to make...one.

The key phrase, though, is "equal ability". There are three local shooters on the cusp of that dreaded M card, and we keep each other honest. Well, mostly The two mag fed shotgun guys beat the non-mag-fed guy often enough (due to equipment, as he is the best shotgun guy of the three) that he just bought one of my S-12 pistol grip conversions (hi, Bill! ).

Liota shoots a pistol-grip-coversion Saiga-20. With factory magazines, it runs just fine. My pistol-grip-conversion Saiga-12 also runs perfectly...with factory eight round magazines. The two local shooters running uber-trick Saigas are using home-built magazines (11-round 12 guage Saiga mags...unless home built...do not exist ) do not run so flawlessly.

My USAS-12 runs just fine (I don't, but the gun does ), but is like carrying a boat anchor around. At 6'3" 225, I don't mind a 12.5 pound gun much unless I have to carry it miles (Trooper class? No, I'm fine, thanks ). Liota's S-20 is FAR more pleasant to carry, and cycles more like a rifle than a shotgun. With some practice on "rocking" magazines in place, she has been doing MUCH better with it than she did with her JP 1100 or a borrowed Gold and speedloaders.

Alex

[JAG]

Interesting. I would have stood fast in the defense of the tube guns.

I have seen lots of siagas run but not in compitition. They all seemed to have some issues.

So..

2 shooters of equal skill

12 targets

Siaga with 8 round mag

Tube gun with 8 in tube

Both will require only one reload to make 12.

Buzzer sounds....no difference?

Long game.. multi reloads...mag fed wins.

OK

Thanks again

JAG

[George]

Long game.. multi reloads...mag fed wins.

Not necessesarily. If there is plenty of movement time on a long course, the slight edge the Saiga has is gone and the tuber is on equal ground. Close up the positions so it's almost a stand and shoot hoser and the mag-feeders advantage starts to climb.

It's all in the number of re-loads and the distance between them.

BTW, the Saiga's I have seen choke were all running 10 rounders, or extended mags made by plastiwelding smaller ones together.

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Regards,

[SinistralRifleman]

Alex be warned...we are going to have an interesting shotgun stage this year. No matter what type of gun and feed system you are using it will present some challenges in planning to shoot it...though you are given a lot of leeway in how you want to shoot the stage.

Between a mag fed shotgun, and one with speed loaders....I'd personally prefer the mag fed as changing mags is much easier to do consistently under stress than using speed loaders. Mags are generally more durable than speed loaders too. The only disadvantage I see with mag fed shotguns is having to think a lot harder about how you shoot a stage if it involves changing between loads more than once.

[benny hill]

JAG, same course but w/ 13 rds? mag gun wins easy w/ one quick load verses 2 w/ tubes, it's all in the rd. count.

[Correia]

I've been using a Saiga 12 in 3gun for awhile. I have had really good luck with reliability, but I've only used the factory 8 (9 if you squeeze hard) mags.

I echo what the others have said. The higher the round count, the more advantage to the mag fed. Now on a stage with lots of movement, reload-top off opportunities, it is more moot. Stand and blast lots of rounds, depends on the round count. I can load a few shells into a tube fed faster than a new mag into a Saiga. But more than that, the mag wins.