TDean Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 OK, I'm a little down on three gun after the last match I went to. This wasn't a USPSA 3-gun, so maybe this had something to do with it. Every fibre of my being tells me not to point a loaded weapon at something I'm NOT willing to destroy. So why is it ok to sling a rifle that may or MAY NOT be clear. This slung rifle has a nasty habit of sweeping the crowd as the shooter continues through the course shooting his handgun. I've never shot a USPSA 3-gun event, what guidelines are in place to prevent this sort of thing from happening? Pretty scary.....especially while knowing some of these guys do their own "trigger jobs". Another thing, what's with the para-military-rambo-wannabe-post-traumatic-dress-syndrome outfits some of these guys wear at 3-gun events. Please tell me a *real* USPSA 3-gun is different than what I experienced...... I'm looking foward to the NW challenge USPSA match in Marysille, Wa. this weekend. It'll re-affirm my trust in competitive shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 That's called a DQ at our club. Nobody's allowed to sling up a loaded anything. Sweeping at any time during a match, loaded or clear is an automatic DQ. Muzzle over the berm...DQ. The prevaling custom here is to case all weapons immediately after use. I thought the custom during a mult-gun stage was to rack long guns. Oh, wait... some neighbor kid is wandering through my yard again. Better go put on my Ninja suit before I go out and whack him... gotta run... E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Nobody slings a rifle or shotgun over their shoulder on a combo stage around here. We provide a table to dump the unloaded long gun onto. We have allowed tactical slings, but not everyone has them or knows how to use them, so we may have to provide visual aids. (OK, now watch the video of the bikini-clad Assistant RO as she demonstrates the proper method of using a tactical sling......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 While most USPSA 3-Gun events I've attended don't seem to attract as many of the survivalist garbed soldier of fortune type individuals, any type of 3-gun match does seem to draw them out... And yes, breaking the 180 in anyway at a USPSA event with any type of weapon, slung or not, is a DQ. As Pat said, most eventswill have some place designated where you (in a safe manner) place your unloaded firearm (with muzzle pointed down range) before proceeding further in the course. The only courses of fire I've witnessed where you retained a long gun and a pistol for the entire course, engaging targets with both wepons intermittently, was a "tactical" match ran by a local law enforcement group.... it was much like you described, and gave me the heebie jeebies just watching the multiple safety hazards each stage. I'll stick with USPSA rules, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 10, 2002 Author Share Posted June 10, 2002 LOL Eric, that's what I'm talking about! Example: The course descriptions were to load 6 rounds EXACTLY, shoot EXACTLY 6 rounds, sling your AR-15, draw your handgun and kneel through ports to engage targets. The problem: Who verifies that the competitor only loaded 6, what if he loaded 7? The RO doesn't check to see if the bolt is back or anything! So we have this "combat type" running around with a *possibly* chambered and *possibly* not on-safe rifle with it's muzzle jabbing into the ground when he kneels and occasionally pointing rearward towards us! Wheew, I'm glad to hear this isn't the way you guys shoot 3-gun. This sounds like bad stage design. How (if at all) would you shoot rifle, transfer to handgun, then transition back to rifle during a COF? It sounds very safe to “ground” your rifle after done with that portion of the stage. But this pretty much means that you won’t use it again on that stage right? Is there a way to verify a clear rifle, and safely sling it for the remainder of a stage? Pat, do you have a video of that bikini-clad asst. RO gal? (Edited by TDean at 1:18 pm on June 10, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserb Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 I would think this would be a DQ as you are crossing other people with the muzzle. If it wasn't a DQ I do not think I would want to be a spectator at the match... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 You're breaking the 180 long before you're sweeping the squad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaf Smith Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 TDean, There are many cases of LEO instructors being killed while training, all because someone 'forgot' the gun was loaded. No, not only no, but blankety-blank NO. They should not allow any gun, loaded or unloaded, to sweep anyone. Flat DQ (Disqualified), right there. It is just an accident waiting to happen. Sure, the gun was supposed to be unloaded, probably was unloaded, but one day, just once, a year from now, it WON'T BE UNLOADED. I suggest you stay away from matches that are run by people who will not enforce safety rules, even if you are not hurt, someone else may be hurt there, and some slick lawyer may try to sue everyone who was there. There are plenly of matches run by good people who know better, and I would go to their matches. Deaf (Edited by Deaf Smith at 10:26 am on June 11, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 11, 2002 Author Share Posted June 11, 2002 Agreed. To show what a small community we have, I was contacted off list by the MD of the match I'm speaking of (darn lurkers ). He was suprised to hear of the 180 violations I reported. He apologized, and wanted to know who the RO was. So it sounds like I was just in a bad squad (not bad shooters, just not up to speed as far as 3-gun etiquette) Which bring up another point, choose you squad well if you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 The only place I've been to where we aren't exquisitely concerned with muzzle direction is a particular series of SWAt classes where empty rifles have a section of bright yellow nylon rope poked through the ejection port and down the mag well. No mag, bolt is held back, nothing can be chambered. And we still take care. As for club matches, we use the range tables, and take care to define the accepted direction of the empty rifle muzzle. As for the RO gal, I'm still in the audition stage. This may take a while...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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