Not Setting Off 40's In A 610

[10mmdave]

Okay, as I alluded to in an earlier post......

Been trying to get a certain older model 610 (hammer mtd fire pin) all set up for

revo division for USPSA, been farting around with the Open revo and Icore loads

just for fun so figured I get serious (ya right)

So, been having a TON of misfires, the guns had some work done to it (me and a

dremel tool) and yes the trigger is light.

OH !! by the way, I've been doing all my tests using 40 Win brass with Fed 100 primers, 155 grn.

I did some trigger work on it last week, thought I found a problem, go to the range

Sunday to test, dang thing misfiring all over the place.

But....I had some 10mm bowling pin loads with me this time, drop in a moonclip full and whadda ya know, they all go boom.

Tried these same loads in a 610-2 with the frame mtd FP, same problem with the

40's but all the 10mm's went off also.

So the obvious difference is sml primer for the 40's and large for the 10mm.

I believe the rims are .005 thinner for the 40's, which would mean the primmer is .005 farther away from the FP.

Anybody sell longer firing pins for the hammer mtd type ??

How are you 646 folks working out ? do you folks have light enough triggers ??

Okay, I've rambled enough.

I'm either going to use 10mm brass (easiest solution)

Mill the frame so the hammer gets closer to the primer (which will get the firing pin

closer to the primer)

Or try and make an extend firing pin for the hammer mtd type(how the heck am I

going to do that?)

[Patrick Sweeney]

Forget the firing pin "solutions." First, get your mainspring back to full, factory strength. There's time to fuss over trigger pull later. Second, make sure your primers are fully seated. That means either a hand-seater or a 1050 Dillon.

If the gun works with 10mm brass, why are you messing around with 40? I know, because the ejection is faster, right? Compared to the hassles you're experiencing now, how much of an "advantage" is that ejection?

Full power spring. 10mm brass, primers fully seated. Get the gun going bang 100% of the time and then start tuning it.

[10mmdave]

Well the gun does work 100%.....with 10mm ammo.

No 1050 needed, no heavier spring needed.

Primers on the 40 loads are well within "primed" specs.

I'm using 40 brass because I have a ton of it, and I get more efficent powder burn

than a semi-lite 10mm load. ( I know, 165-170 pf isn't lite but my 210pf pin loads

burn alot cleaner )

Oh well, any other opinions out there ?

[MikeFoley]

Thicker moonclips maybe? Also, is there a particular headstamp case that does this more than others? I know that Speer looks dramatically different than Federal and Winchester near the primer pocket area.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

PM sent

[10mmdave]

PM sent 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right back at ya sir.

[10mmdave]

Thicker moonclips maybe?  Also, is there a particular headstamp case that does this more than others?  I know that Speer looks dramatically different than Federal and Winchester near the primer pocket area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thicker clips might help, as well as thicker rims on the 40 brass.

I've measured some 40 brass with rims as thin as .040.

Spec calls for .050 for 40 and .055-045 for 10mm (nother spec calls for .055 only

for 10mm so there's .005 right off the top)

I'll go thru my supply of 40 brass and see what I come up with.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

PM sent 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right back at ya sir.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some things to check:

End shake yoke and/or cylinder

type of brass( when I had my 610 it took anything)

What brand moonclips? I had excellent luck with Ranch Products and Scherer so I never tried others.

Firing pin bushing-Clean and clear of debris?? Brush out under hammer with M16 small brush.

My first inclination is a brass or end shake problem that is overcome by the thicker 10MM brass. Before you do anything else take Patrick's advice and put a full power main spring in for a test to see what it does.

See you somewhere I am sure.

Gary

[10mmdave]

Some things to check:

End shake yoke and/or cylinder

type of brass( when I had my 610 it took anything)

What brand moonclips? I had excellent luck with Ranch Products and Scherer so I never tried others.

Firing pin bushing-Clean and clear of debris?? Brush out under hammer with M16 small brush.

My first inclination is a brass or end shake problem that is overcome by the thicker 10MM brass. Before you do anything else take Patrick's advice and put a full power main spring in for a test to see what it does.

See you somewhere I am sure.

Gary

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

End shake is at it's bare minimum, if there's oil under the extractor star theres no

end shake, a flake of powder and it no turn.

Bushing area is clean

I do believe (and have not measured yet ) that the 40's rims are thinner.

course just the specs say 40's are .005 thinner.

Moon clips are good ones, actually this gun's headspace is so tight that moon clips

have to be perfectly flat or the gun won't turn.

(and saying that, I have probably 40+ clips that won't work in this gun but do work

in my other 2 610's, one Classic, and another older version which would mean

they have a larger headspace dimension)

I have increased the main spring force, and yes the gun then set off the 40's, but

not all of them.

With this gun if a rnd doesn't go off in double action sometimes it won't go off in

single action either, even with multiple trys

That's really werid

Thanks for the help Gary, maybe we'll hook up at a match soon.

[Guninhand]

I had a bunch of misfires with 10mm in a 610 using winchester primers and the apparent culprit was the material the moon clips were made of. I was using the polymer type and apparently there was enough cushion to prevent ignition. This failure went away when the Hearthco clips were used. I didn't do any thickness measurements.

The polymers are reliable with Fed large pistol primers in 10mm.

[10mmdave]

I had a bunch of misfires with 10mm in a 610 using winchester primers and the apparent culprit was the material the moon clips were made of. I was using the polymer type and apparently there was enough cushion to prevent ignition. This failure went away when the Hearthco clips were used. I didn't do any thickness measurements.

The polymers are reliable with Fed large pistol primers in 10mm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had the same problem awhile back, friend was trying out the poly clips.

Or problem was also not igniting 40's in the 10mm cylinder, the 10mm's did

work with the poly clips.

I've been looking at firing pin protrusion and comparing that between my 2 610's

(old and new style) and between my 627 8shots, the 627's have much more pin

protrusion than the 610's. I just rec'vd a Mod 28 and that gun hase even more

than the newer guns.

Anyways, still looking into, thought about making my own custom firing pin but I

can't get the nose rivit from brownells, discontinued.

[10mmdave]

The plot thickens..............

Just took my hammer out of my Open 610 revo, it's an old case hardened one

that I bought new at a gun show years back.

Weell I measure the firing pin length and lo and behold it's a full .020 longer

than the stock flash chromed original hammer

We be giving this one a try this afternoon.

Later