300 Blackout subs with 30 carbine bullets?

[js1130146]

I just got my reloading room re-set up and I've decided its time to dive into reloading 300 blk subs. Anyone done subs with 110 grain carbine bullets? I'm just looking to make some cheapo plinker rounds for fun at home. I have a 300 blk handi rifle 1:7 twist, so no worries about cycling an action or anything. Any suggestions of powders to try? Or starting weights? Currently on hand I have H335, 800x, 700x, HS6, Win231, Titegroup, and Lil' Gun.

[wgj3]

Lilgun or 296 should work.

[js1130146]

8 minutes ago, wgj3 said:

Lilgun or 296 should work.

Do you suppose there's a significant risk with starting at ~1/2 the Hodgdon listed starting load for a 110?

[goldfieldshooter]

296 is one powder you should not download! There is warnings all over reloading manuals about that. I don't think you will get sub- sonic (mouse fart) loads unless you go to something like H4895 or similar. There is a section in Hodgsons reloading manual on reduced loads and it is well worth a read.

[Smokecloud]

The Holy grail for subs is 1680.  since you don't have to cycle an action, you have a lot more options tho.  I have not shot those 110s but have loaded hornady 110 vmax, 125gr tnt Speers, 125gr nosler bt, 110gr Barnes up through 208 Ajax and 220gr sierra and nosler bthp at subsonic levels.  5744 and 4227 powders are the other 2 that are safe and I have loaded at sub levels, there is book data on both.  H110 is the go to powder for supersonic.  296 is very close to h110 for data and Lil Gun seems popular for supersonic loads but I have no experience with it.

 

I have a family member with the little handy rifle we play with all sorts of stuff in.  I have an AR15 with 8.2" Noveske and a Saker, so I like my stuff to cycle.  the 110s work better on critters and water jugs at 1025fps than the 220 bthp or even the 208amaxs.  use a chrono and start a little fast and work your way down so you don't stick a bullet in the bore.

[js1130146]

6 hours ago, Smokecloud said:

The Holy grail for subs is 1680.  since you don't have to cycle an action, you have a lot more options tho.

Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm looking for something that people just haven't rearly bothered with. 1680 is way slow in comparison to what logic tells me I "can" use. I'm just a little leery of small charge weights in a largish case.

I'm gonna start some testing with the pistol powders I have on hand and go from there. 

[Smokecloud]

2 hours ago, js1130146 said:

Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm looking for something that people just haven't rearly bothered with. 1680 is way slow in comparison to what logic tells me I "can" use. I'm just a little leery of small charge weights in a largish case.

I'm gonna start some testing with the pistol powders I have on hand and go from there. 

Your reply is a little confusing.  Since you want to go with faster burning pistol powders, you have to realize that means smaller charges to achieve the same thing.  Most of the data was for the semi-auto platforms.  The 1680 had the correct pressure curve that puts more PSI at the gas port at the correct time to insure reliable cycling.  The other powders are very close on the burn chart.  Since you don't have any action to worry about, you have a much wider field to play in.  For supersonic with H110 and a 125gr bullet, I run about 18.0 grains and the chrono tells me that I'm getting about 2025 fps out of my short barrel, that fills the case to the bottom of the neck.  H110 is more of a magnum pistol powder that is popular in 357 magnum.  You are correct in being wary of reduced loads with some of the slower burning powders as you will run into problems with pressure spikes from flashover. 

One pistol powder that has book data for subsonic loads in 223 and 308 is titegroup (I run TrailBoss for my 308 subs).  TG is way too fast for my purposes, but you should be able to find a reasonable load that is safe.  TG is not position sensitive, but the charge is very very small.  I would guess that you might end up in the 4-5 grain range for a sub load depending on your specific bullet.  In comparison I run about 10.2 grains of 1680 to achieve the same velocities. 

 

To try to keep the 300blk reasonably cheap to shoot, I typically run Speer TNT 125 gr HP's, I can get them in 500 packs for around $89 (about .18 cents per bullet), I pretty much only run them supersonic in my rifle as it becomes a single shot at subsonic velocities.  I then watch for the Shooters Pro Shop for Nosler 220gr BTHP for their blems or 2nds to go on sale, I can usually score them for about $21 per 100, or be very patient and wait for the 208 AMAX blems to come back in stock at MidwayUSA, they usually run around $23 per 100. The problem with all rifle bullets at pistol speeds, is that they simply do not expand and work as they are supposed to.  That makes them less desirable to shoot animals with.  The 110 gr varmint bullets seem to do better on coyotes in my yard, but I became frustrated at the cost of plinking with this caliber and decided to build a 9mm AR.  I am waiting on a suppressor for it, but the SBR is pretty much complete and papered.  a 147 grain HP at 1000-1025fps works like its supposed to.  I cast and powder coat my own pistol bullets, so plinking around the house (I live on a ranch) is cheap and easy.  The brass is 10x easier to prep and load.  I still love playing with my 300blk, but I typically shoot the coyotes with the 125gr TNT's at full speed at them, because they are still quieter than shooting any 223 suppressed at supersonic speeds. 

 

Your 30M1 plinker bullets may be a good solution with titegroup powder since you don't have to worry about feed reliability.  It seems like some of the guys over on one of the 300blk forums were running Hornady XTP pistol bullets in a 300blk with great success, I can't recall if they had settled on the 32acp version, or something close to that, but it was in the 90gr area and may have been run through a size die to bring it down a couple of thousands prior to loading.  Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

 

 

 

[js1130146]

35 minutes ago, Smokecloud said:

Your reply is a little confusing.  .

Sorry for my vague reply. I was just saying that logic dictates I should be able to easily achieve 1000 fps with fast powders like TG and m1 bullets. I just don't have the experience with such small charge weights in a larger case to know how "safe" it is. 800x is rather bulky which might help take up some of the space but it seems like it's probably still a little slower than ideal. I guess I'll give TG a go and see what happens.

This is purely a low cost, low recoil, quiet plinking load using cheapo plated bullets. I have other, much better, loads for hunting and the like. 

I'll have to look into that XTP idea though. It sounds promising.

Thanks for the info. I'm still rather new to 300 blk reloading and couldn't find anything like what i was looking for. 

[Smokecloud]

No worries.  I don't know if you are into casting your own bullets, but I got into casting my own solely for the 300blk.  I didn't get the results I originally wanted, but ended up getting exactly what I needed for pistol and slugs.  Long story short, I cant take my Saker apart, so the powder coated cast bullets for 300blk subs, were not as clean as I would have liked. If you have a pistol suppressor that you can take apart and clean, that might be the ticket for you.  Or just run them without a can.  If you go play over on castboolits.com there is a wealth of information for 300blk.  a lot of those guys gravitate to Unique for a lot of loads, its probably worth a look, even if you are not getting into the cast bullet world.  Take care.

Do keep in mind with powder like 1680 and the heavy bullets though that the long 200+ gr bullets consume about half the case volume when seated to mag length, therefore reducing the airspace.  Shooting the 110's and such you have the entire case open. 

 

[js1130146]

1 hour ago, Smokecloud said:

Do keep in mind with powder like 1680 and the heavy bullets though that the long 200+ gr bullets consume about half the case volume when seated to mag length, therefore reducing the airspace.  Shooting the 110's and such you have the entire case open. 

Thanks again. I've been using Lil' Gun for my heavy subs and supers. I should probably get an idea of how much throat room I really have to work with since I'm not restricted to mag length.

[Smokecloud]

I have a very tight chamber and short lead on my barrel.  My brother runs a 9" AAC and I can't run his loads because they touch the lands in my gun.  He also gets about 100fps faster velocities than I do with the same charges. I never figured 3/4" would make that much difference. The quietest out of all 3 of our guns was out of the handy rifle.  No port noise and action noise is huge when having "quiet" competitions.  The load that was the quietest out of it was some 125gr TNT Speer's that I had loaded with TrailBoss.  Pretty full case, book data and quiet enough to make you giggle.  Shot some through the AR's we knew it had zero chance of cycling, but I was surprised that it barely moved the bolt at all, so it stayed closed for the most part and was the quietest rounds we shot through the semi's also.  That was what made me start playing with sub rounds out of my Rem 700 in .308.  My kids were shooting them a few weeks ago, it was quieter than their pellet rifles and recoil was on par with the pellet rifles, they ran my 50 rounds out pretty quickly. 

[anachronism]

For subsonic loads that don't have to function an action take a look at loads for a wildcat revolver cartridge called the 30-357 Paxton. It's a necked down 357 mag case and this wildcat is usually seen in rechambered 30 Carbine Blackhawks, TC Contenders, and single shot "Rook" type rifles. Fast burning, non-position sensitive powders are what you need for this project.