It's A Double!

[Schutzenmeister]

One of the better screw-ups I've witnessed occured at the 2004 European Championships last August ... I was the CRO but running the clipboard for this squad ... my RO was on the timer.

The final target array in the COF was Paper - Paper - Steel - Steel (as most folks shot it.) The shooter in question shot it something like this:

Bang(p) Bang(p) ... Bang(p) ... Bang(s) ... Bang(s) ......... He stood looking at his targets for a short period, then looked at the RO. The RO looked at me, I shrugged my shoulders ... The RO waited a couple of seconds while the shooter looked at him then the RO finally says "IF you are finished ..." You know, the words are official, but the tone is intended to politely cue the shooter?

Well, the shooter unloads, shows clear, etc. We go to score the targets and on the second paper target the call is Charlie Mike. The shooter is not happy with this. He claims it's a double. The RO explains calmly that he only shot one round at it ... Charlie Mike. The shooter is not satisfied. He wants the CRO (me) to review it.

I double check the target just to be sure there is no other hole on it ... I examine the one hole I see to see if it might be a double ... After all, I could have made a mistake. I concured in the call ... Charlie Mike. I also informed him he only fired one round at it.

The shooter was still not happy ... he wanted the RM. We pulled the target and proceded to score the rest of the stage. While waiting for the RM we went ahead and ran the next shooter.

The RM arrives and both the RO and I explain what we saw and what we called. (We were both in agreement.) The shooter insisted it was a double.

The RM smiled and took out his overlay. He examined the target and the hole, then placed the overlay over the hole. He held it at different angles to the sun to get a good view of the hole.

He took out a second overlay and placed it over the first ... then repeated the process of looking at the target. Finally he pulled out a magnifying lupe, placed it over the overlay and the hole and examined the hit under magnification. While all this was going on, we ran another shooter.

After this was all done, the RM called me and the shooter over and announced his finding ... Charlie Mike. The shooter was still not what I would call pleased, but he thanked the RM and accepted the call.

I learned two things in this process: one as a shooter, the other as an official.

As an Official - RMs have a difficult job. They are frequently called in to sooth the feathers of someone who just screwed up, adversly affecting their score. They're excited, they paid a lot of money to be there, and they just want a better score.

I could tell by the RM's look at me when he first saw the target what the call was going to be ... By this point in time I'd been working with him for about 10 days (counting the pre-match and the main match.) Nevertheless, he cheerfully went through this big dog-and-pony show ... for what? I didn't have to ask him. The look on his face said it all. He knew the shooter was frustrated. He also knew the best way to make him feel better and accept the call was to go through all of this and give him his money's worth. This was a lesson worth learning ... I always knew it, but this was just so well executed.

As a Shooter - If you're going to claim it's a double, be damned sure you fired 2 rounds at the target to start with!

[Flexmoney]

And here is the flip side of that...

At the US Nationals last year, the RO was calling my targets. We get to one and he calls Alpha-Mike. I pause to get my look at it. The RO tells me that I only fired one shot at that target. Well, that didn't seem right to me at all, so I ask him if he is sure. He again says, very matter of fact like, that I only fired one round at it. Hmmmmm...

Sure enough, Shred sends me a video of our squad shooting at the Nationals. My run on that stage is on the video. I, did indeed, take my two shoots.

As an RO - If you are going to claim a shooter didn't take two shoots, make sure you know for certain (and that you aren't wrong).

I can handle that I might have pulled off the target too soon, but leaving the stage thinking I didn't even fire at that target twice...kinda had me pissed off (at myself) for the rest of the day.

[txaggie]

Just out of curiosity, but it seems that both situations could have been solved by looking at the shot timer. The timer should have recorded the correct number of shots. Right? Or can you not review the timer to help make these types of calls?

[XRe]

You can't use the timer absolutely reliably in that situation, at least on field courses. You sometimes end up far enough back from the shooter in the middle of the course that you might miss a shot or three, and the count will be off.

ROs shouldn't be scoring targets by their counting of the rounds the shooter fired, anyway. Score the targets, period. If the shooter needs some morale support afterwards, and you know for certain that (s)he didn't fire a shot at a target or something, feel free to tell them - but don't use it as a justification to *not* fully inspect a target - you might be wrong....

[Schutzenmeister]

Guys .. Please ... Reread the original post. I'll answer points below:

As an RO - If you are going to claim a shooter didn't take two shoots, make sure you know for certain (and that you aren't wrong).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I admited in the original post that I might have been wrong ... I inspected the target and found only one hole (as did my Czech RO.) Afterwards, we pulled the target and turned it over to the RM.

Just out of curiosity, but it seems that both situations could have been solved by looking at the shot timer.  The timer should have recorded the correct number of shots.  Right?  Or can you not review the timer to help make these types of calls?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can't use the timer absolutely reliably in that situation, at least on field courses. You sometimes end up far enough back from the shooter in the middle of the course that you might miss a shot or three, and the count will be off.

Absolutely correct ... in addition, the shooter may have fired additional shots at some point in the course, or the timer could have picked up an echo at some point. About the only thing you can rely on the timer for is the last shot ... and even then, the RO needs to be confident that what the timer shows IS the last shot.

ROs shouldn't be scoring targets by their counting of the rounds the shooter fired, anyway. Score the targets, period. If the shooter needs some morale support afterwards, and you know for certain that (s)he didn't fire a shot at a target or something, feel free to tell them - but don't use it as a justification to *not* fully inspect a target - you might be wrong....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not entirely true ... Although this was CS, ROs are routinely required to count shots in FT or VC stages ... After a time, it becomes second nature. As noted in the original post, I did inspect the target before making my call as the CRO ... There was only ONE hole. When he insisted it was a double, I informed him he only fired one round at it. We pulled the target and the IROA RM concured (after VERY careful examination) that there was no evidence of two hits.

One thing not mentioned in the original post ... This was the 400th+ shooter we had run on this COF. No, we were not getting complacient or tired ... well, not too tired! But after several hundred shooters you get to know the course of fire VERY well. You ear is very quick to recognize the difference between a double - double - single - single and a double - single - single - single. For the record ... after it was over and the RM scored, I overheard a couple of his squadmates telling him the same thing we had ... He only fired one round at it.

I promise he was fairly scored. I know the RM ... While the extent he went to in reviewing the target was a bit of a dog-and-pony show, I PROMISE that if he had seen evidence of a double he would not have hesitated to overturn my call!

[XRe]

ROs shouldn't be scoring targets by their counting of the rounds the shooter fired, anyway. Score the targets, period. If the shooter needs some morale support afterwards, and you know for certain that (s)he didn't fire a shot at a target or something, feel free to tell them - but don't use it as a justification to *not* fully inspect a target - you might be wrong....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not entirely true ... Although this was CS, ROs are routinely required to count shots in FT or VC stages ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you missed my point slightly. Of course ROs will need to count shots on VC and FT stages - for penalty purposes. My point was - when you get downrange and are actually looking at paper, you should be scoring what you see there based solely on what holes (or lack thereof) are on the paper, and not be influenced by number of rounds fired by the shooter. Your round count may highlight that you *should* be seeing something on the targets, but.... You'll note that I was referring to Flex's post, as well, and wasn't coming down on you for your performance as an RO :)

[Flexmoney]

and wasn't coming down on you for your performance as an RO :)

Same here. I wasn't posting as a reflection on your RO performance. I was adding on an experience that I had that was similar. (sorry to throw you off like that, no offense meant)

[Loves2Shoot]

Common reply here:

"Yep, it's a perfect double! Too bad, a "perfect double" scores Alpha, Mike "