HS6 & Bullseye IDPA load for 1911 9mm

[JMPhotog]

I have been reloading for about 6 months, so I am still new. I load 45 and 9mm and use Bullseye for both. I compete in IDPA so I am loading for the IDPA power factor. My 45 load is perfect, shoots great and never an issue in my 1911.
I just bought a 9mm Ed Brown 5" for IDPA in September and starting reloading 9 at that time as well. I had a couple of ejection issues and sent the gun back to Brown and they made an adjustment to the extractor and ejector. Its been shooting great since it came back, except for a very rare (maybe 1 in 150 rounds) stove pipe ejection. Could be the extractor yet, but I am assuming that Browns gave it a good work over. I am using a 10# recoil spring in my Brown and the brass is ejecting 3 to 5 feet.

I am also getting an occasional mangled brass. When that happens, the brass ejects at my feet, but its mangled. The slide does cycle the next round, but the brass that ejected is mangled. See photo. But It makes me ask, do I need to experiment with different powders for 9. Right now I am using 4.3 gr of Bullseye on 124 gr RN from Bayou Hi-Tek coated. It chrono's at 1120 ish. The Bullseye groups very tight in my gun.

Some folks at the local store suggested a slower burning powder, suggesting it will give a higher charge and maybe cycle the slide better. so I tried HS6 today and loaded some test.

6.0 gr HS6 124 gr LRN coated Bayou Hi-Tek. Grouped very nice, brass ejected 4 to 8 feet. Chrono 1128 to 1150 avg of 1138

6.3 gr HS6 124 gr LRN coated Bayou Hi-Tek. Grouped very nice, brass ejected 4 to 8 feet Chrono 1171 to 1202 avg of 1185

It was only 10 rounds of each. It ejected fine. I could tell it was snappier and the ejection was faster. However, I noticed some unburnt powder in the inside of the gun on the slide and ejector after shooting the 20 rounds of HS6.

So now I am wondering if HS6 is the powder I should be using? Bullseye is great for getting me a softer 45 IDPA load, but maybe its too soft for the 9mm 1911's? I know 9mm in 1911's can be finicky with springs and lighter loads. If HS6 is where I need to be, what do I need to know? What is the deal with the unburnt powder? Thanks for your input.

[v1911]

For IDPA, HS-6 isn't exactly ideal. You're using almost 30% more powder per charge than the average shooter. Those loading 9mm to achieve 124pf (most load to about 130pf for safe measure) are using anywhere between 3.0-3-4gr of powder. The more popular powders; N320, tightgroup, competition, clays, are fast burning powders only requiring 3.0-3.4gr depending on your powder and bullet preference. You may also find yourself dropping down to a 9# recoil spring.

Edited April 29, 2016 by v1911

[JMPhotog]

You may also find yourself dropping down to a 9# recoil spring.

Thanks. I bought one, but the folks at Ed Brown advised me against using it. They said the gun was designed to run on a 10#. Maybe I need to try it and run the Bullseye like I have been and see what the 9# does.

[FortyOverUnder]

HS-6 is better suited for comped guns. It likes the high pressure which is why you're seeing the unburnt powder happening.

Have you thought of Titegroup?

[v1911]

You may also find yourself dropping down to a 9# recoil spring.

Thanks. I bought one, but the folks at Ed Brown advised me against using it. They said the gun was designed to run on a 10#. Maybe I need to try it and run the Bullseye like I have been and see what the 9# does.

The 10# recommendation may be for factory ammo and not the bunny fart loads that many of us run.

[mic2377]

Your Bullseye load is not a "weak" load - I would think that it would provide adequate ejection, and your gun should run it fine.

I personally have shot a whole bunch of 115 gr JHP's over 4.4-4.5 gr of Bullseye (book max is 4.6 gr) and it runs every 9 mm I have fired it in. POI is similar and felt recoil is slightly less than bulk brass-cased ammo like WWB or AE.

I think that the HS-6 loads are a Band-Aid and not the real cure for weak ejection. Slow-burning powders tend to increase felt recoil which it sounds like you are experiencing.

I think you will be able to achieve a softer shooting load with Bullseye, similar to the N320 loads that are very popular here. Plus, Bullseye is very economical, and loaded to the levels you are using is fairly clean burning.

[joshxdm9]

I have ran thousands of rounds through my 1911 and 2011 with 3.2gr of titegroup with a bayou 124g bayou loaded out to 1.160 with no issues at all. Very accurate will not make minor but very soft. I would think if you bumped it up to 3.4-3.6 it would make minor no problem

[JMPhotog]

I have ran thousands of rounds through my 1911 and 2011 with 3.2gr of titegroup with a bayou 124g bayou loaded out to 1.160 with no issues at all. Very accurate will not make minor but very soft. I would think if you bumped it up to 3.4-3.6 it would make minor no problem

What pound spring are you running? So now I am confused. It sounds like HS6 is not the answer. So is it the gun? The spring? or do I need to increase my Bullseye load slightly? Maybe drop down to the 9#? I think I may pick up a box or two of factory ammo to see if that cycles fine. I also noticed that the gun runs fine for about the first 30 rounds, then it starts to happen. Maybe I need different lube? I am using FP10 shooters choice. When it happens, I get out my small bottle of 0W20 synthetic motor oil and put a coulee drops on the rail and it seems to be fine after that.

[JMPhotog]

Your Bullseye load is not a "weak" load - I would think that it would provide adequate ejection, and your gun should run it fine.

I personally have shot a whole bunch of 115 gr JHP's over 4.4-4.5 gr of Bullseye (book max is 4.6 gr) and it runs every 9 mm I have fired it in. POI is similar and felt recoil is slightly less than bulk brass-cased ammo like WWB or AE.

I think that the HS-6 loads are a Band-Aid and not the real cure for weak ejection. Slow-burning powders tend to increase felt recoil which it sounds like you are experiencing.

I think you will be able to achieve a softer shooting load with Bullseye, similar to the N320 loads that are very popular here. Plus, Bullseye is very economical, and loaded to the levels you are using is fairly clean burning.

Thanks Mic. Sounds about right. So what do you suggest I try? A lighter recoil spring?

[joshxdm9]

I have ran thousands of rounds through my 1911 and 2011 with 3.2gr of titegroup with a bayou 124g bayou loaded out to 1.160 with no issues at all. Very accurate will not make minor but very soft. I would think if you bumped it up to 3.4-3.6 it would make minor no problem

What pound spring are you running? So now I am confused. It sounds like HS6 is not the answer. So is it the gun? The spring? or do I need to increase my Bullseye load slightly? Maybe drop down to the 9#? I think I may pick up a box or two of factory ammo to see if that cycles fine. I also noticed that the gun runs fine for about the first 30 rounds, then it starts to happen. Maybe I need different lube? I am using FP10 shooters choice. When it happens, I get out my small bottle of 0W20 synthetic motor oil and put a coulee drops on the rail and it seems to be fine after that.

Factory spring setup in an edge and I believe 10lb spring in 1911

[JMPhotog]

OK, I have the luxury of having a shooting pit on my land, so I went out and played around. I loaded some test rounds.

1) 5.8 gr HS6 with 124 gr Bayou LRN. 10 rounds cycled fine with the 10# spring and Chrono at 1120 avg.
2) 4.5 gr of Bullseye with 124 gr Bayou LRN. 10 rounds cycled fine with the 10# spring and Chrono at 1160 avg.
Even though the Bullseye chrono'd faster, the HS6 felt snappier on muzzle flip. On both of these I did a couple pieces of brass fall at my feet or hit my arm, but most landed 3 to 5 feet away.

Then I loaded some 124 gr Fed. American Eagle factory. 2 round fired cycled fine and ejected, but I got the mangled brass again. Loaded 20 more rounds and it was fine. Ejecting 3 to 5 feet, with the occasional soft ejection at my feet, only about 2 rounds though.

Then I loaded my IDPA round that I had been using 4.3 gr Bullseye 124 gr LRN Bayou. Shot 10 rounds with the 10# spring. All cycled fine 3 to 5 feet with one or 2 rounds landing in front or at my feet. This load does meet minor and then some, somewhere around 130 PF.

Then I switched to a new Wolff 9# recoil spring and lubed the rails with 0-W20 synthetic oil. Ran 40 rounds this way. All ran perfect ejecting on a nice pile 5 to 6 feet away and none landing at my feet. I could feel a difference in the muzzle flip too. Seemed like I could back on target faster too.

So it sounds like staying with my standard Bullseye load and the 9# spring is the ticket. Also I had been using FP10 shooters choice oil. It seems like the gun runs better with the 0W20 synthetic oil that folks suggested.
I know Brown has to be careful of making recommendations outside of the norm, but advised me not to try the 9#. They thought it would be OK with my loads but were concerned if I would have shot factory ammo with it. What is the concern there? Thanks!

[v1911]

Question:

Your new Brown. Is it brand new or have you already broken it in? If it is brand new, I'd recommend run about 500 rounds well oiled before even cleaning it. Then go ahead and load up some competition rounds and lower the spring rate. If you've already broken it in, then disregard.

[v1911]

Open shooters load to PFs equivalent to SD ammo, if not hotter. Their guns withstand tens of thousands of rounds without failure (minus spring maintenance). I can't see using WWB with a 9# spring doing any damage to your gun. In a shorter barreled gun you may run into timing issues, but not in your full size.

[JMPhotog]

Open shooters load to PFs equivalent to SD ammo, if not hotter. Their guns withstand tens of thousands of rounds without failure (minus spring maintenance). I can't see using WWB with a 9# spring doing any damage to your gun. In a shorter barreled gun you may run into timing issues, but not in your full size.

I bought the gun brand new in September. It has maybe 1200 or so rounds through it since then. Thanks for your input.

[mic2377]

To be honest I am a Glock shooter, and I haven't owned a 1911, so I don't feel qualified providing advice regarding the safety of spring rate.

I don't think there is a big difference between your loads and ammo like WWB. I think your ejection pattern was enough to indicate that a lower spring rate is needed though, particularly your results with the AE ammo.

In terms of recoil recall loading up some 147 gr loads over a max load of True Blue (a slower burning powder), and compared to loads with a faster burning powder there was a noticeable difference in recoil.

[FortyOverUnder]

HS6 is gassy. Without a comp you should expect a muzzle rise. Open gun shooters love HS6 for that reason.