Loadmaster guru wanted

[jmorris]

A member of another forum sent me a Loadmaster he has given up on and I have a first glance this afternoon.

The case feeder was lost and it looks like the primer feeder is third generation.

There are 4 indexer/flippers and a new indexer, micrometer charge bar along with disks and measure. The shuttle and 1/4" rod are here and the toggle that connects them, a few risers, 19s shell plate and a tool head. I happen to have an extra set of Lee 9mm dies on hand.

What at else do you see from a first glance I might need before I start to play?

Don't need "a cool head" or "patients", looking for hard parts I don't know about.

[UncleTK]

Lots Of Luck with it

[BitchinCamaro]

I've since graduated to other progressives, but I churned out upwards of 30k pieces of 9mm on a Lee Loadmaster and I still keep it around for backup. I'm no guru, but I stuck with the Loadmaster for a long time.

If you want to have smooth high-volume reloading sessions, I suggest giving up on the priming system altogether. I tried every shim/lube/sand/reprofiIe/angle trick suggested on the internet and I was never happy until I just ditched it altogether. I don't know if I last used the 3d or 4th generation primer system, but I do remember that time spent hand-priming your brass beforehand puts you waaaay ahead in rounds per session than having the press constantly jam up and interrupting your rhythm. Plus, you don't waste primers.

I wet tumble, so pistol brass is deprimed anyway. Hand priming really isn't that much trouble and it's a good time to visually inspect your brass for cracks and cull crimped primer pockets, which are the death knell for the Loadmaster. Again, the extra time is getting put towards actually reloading, not diagnosing a jammed up primer system.

As for parts:

*Get an extra length of ball-chain for the powder drop. They will eventually break from stress or it will somehow get bound up on the downstroke and snap. Having an extra on hand makes for a quick-fix instead of a show-stopper.

*Better yet, upgrade to a Hornady case activated powder drop- especially if you're using fine ball powders (the Lee drop is acceptable though). The Lee system adds a lot of the hurky-jerky feel to the operation and because of the design it doesn't hold much powder.

*The optional bullet feeder mechanism will wear out and break. It's still a worthwhile part, as you can manually push/pull the bullet shuttle and it will still save time.

*Blue loctite or teflon tape for the turret thumb screw. It will back out without you realizing it and mess with your COAL.

*Oil can- I always had the ram sitting in a bath of oil on the top ram body so it was constantly lubed and flushing out dirt from the ram/press interface. Wipe up when you're done.

*Get one of those little "L" shaped phillips head screwdrivers from IKEA, it makes it easy to loosen/tighten the case retainers (when you take apart the press to excavate a jammed primer).

*A nice little luxury is a RCBS die locknut wrench. The real-estate on the turret is tight, and sometimes you have to get creative to fit a wrench between dies.

Again, most importantly, and I cannot stress this enough- give up on the primer system.

Sure, give it a few gos and see if you got the magic Lee unicorn. But don't go down that dead thinking you can "make it better". The whole point of going progressive is efficiency, and your round per minute will go negative trying to constantly un-jam a Loadmaster filled with primers.

Edited December 10, 2015 by BitchinCamaro

[dave33]

Looks pretty complete minus the casefeeder. If the primer system that goes under the shellplate has an A with a circle around it on the bottom of it, thats the current one.

If you will work the handle slowly the press will prime just fine. Mine is dang near 100%. The problem I discovered was the wedge bar that pushes the live primer feeder over the primer pin has a fairly steep angle, and when you work the handle too fast it has a tendency to sling the primer out of the cup. You cant run a loadmaster handle at the same rate you can a dillon or hornady. At least not unless you design a less tapered wedge bar and a primer cup with more support around it. Actually Im sure you probably could if you wanted to.

Have fun with it. It can work fine if you take your time with it.

[jmorris]

I don't need the press, so "giving up" is not a concern, let's call it a R&D/trouble shooting exercise.

Search any thread with Loadmaster and my user name to reply and I will bash them with you there. Just looking for solutions from guys that run them with success here.

For the LNL guys, this video shows how to adjust the index.

The one given to me has new "flippers" and a new index rod. The plastic flippers self tap when installed on the new rod. Even after a little back and forth and oil it still requires around 25 in/lb to twist the flipper on the rod and it does not index. Was thinking about running a bottom tap in there but didn't want to ruin a part of there is something I was missing.

It came with the 3rd gen small primer system.

Edited December 10, 2015 by jmorris

[BeerBaron]

The priming system can be made to work fine. Just replace any of the plastic parts of the shuttle if/when they get any wear/damage.

The indexer flippers from memory do just get threaded as you wind them on. They don't move/rotate on the rod in use. They need to stay put.

The case collator and case feeder both worked surprisingly well for me.

It's nice being able to adjust primer seat depth.

Make sure there's no damage on the indexer rod too. If there is get a new one. Fortunately lee parts are cheap.

You'll probably need to adjust the platform alignment a little if it's not indexing. You need it all set so that it'll tilt the indexer flipper a little when ram is at the top of stroke and is the in close enough to have the rail on the press frame pull the index rod out so it can be pushed in by the forward push of the handle and push forward on one of the little nubs on the underside of the shell plate.

The downside is the tolerances in some of the plastic bits (like the indexer flippers).

Keep a little oil on the indexer rod and shell plate.

The nice part about this basic mechanical indexing system is its 100% controlled by your handle speed unlike say a 650 where the last bit of indexing is spring assisted.

They are not a bad design. The failure is in the excecution and the many injection moulded plastic bits.

Can the lee lock rings. I'm sure you have some dillon or even hornady ones around.

[Blacksamwell]

Buy a second spring for the bottom of the powder return chain and use two of them together. I haven't broken the ball chain through about 15,000 rounds since I added the second spring.

Pull the elastomer wiper out of the powder measure and thoroughly coat it in powdered graphite before re-installing it. Prevents the elastomer from sticking to the disk and flexing sideways which causes random and intermittent light charges.

Use a sizing die in station 2 with the decapping pin removed. This centers the case for the priming action at the top of the stroke and will improve your priming action. Some loadmaster owners use the universal decapping die in station one and the sizing die without decapping pin in station two. I use a standard sizind die in station one with decapping pin and an undersized sizing die in station two without the decapping pin.

[PiratePast40]

I've had very little trouble with my LoadMaster. Not sure about generations on the primer system, but you can always look at the Lee web site to see which one is the latest. Since mine is a little over a year old, I'm assuming that it's the newest. Again, no problems, that were not self induced, in about 10k rounds loaded.

A couple of things to help make things go easier:

• Use the tygon tubing inserts in the case collator to reduce the number of upside down brass. You can find how to do it on many internet posts.
• Lap the powder disks to reduce leakage. It's simple and easy to do and is basically the same as breaking them in. Just faster.
• If you're going to use the micro charge bar for very small volumes, do a search and find out how to modify it so that those charges are consistent. Or better yet, get the new drum powder measure.
• Become a member on the LoadMaster video forum. Lots of good information and support. Read up on everything people have done.
• Use the setup instructions from Magic Mike. Makes much more sense and make things much more accurate.
• Spend the time to learn exactly what happens during each phase of the process.
• Get an offset screwdriver for case retainers as well as forceps or tweezers for handling primers.
• Mount as many LED lights as you can. The most important one will be the one that lets you look into the cases to verify the powder drop.

I have a couple of items from Magic Mike. The billet turret, turret plate and shake break. The one single item that makes the most difference is the turret plate. Because of that plate, I don't need to worry about the turret set screw. Just remove it.

I guess the best piece of advice I could give is to understand what is going on and pay attention while reloading. The pattern of observation becomes automatic after awhile.

[MrPostman]

Pretty good press for the money. I had problems with the priming system as well. The problem was the spring that sits under the priming trough. The spring is really too long from the factory and ends up getting bent which causes issues. I pulled it out and stuck it inside a spring from a ball point pen, then cut off about 3 or 4 mm until it was level with the pen spring. Works great now. I will say that the pivoting arm doesn't work anywhere as well as the plunger style they use on the pro1000 which I have also. You need to use same headstamp brass once you get it dialed in on the loadmaster. Variations in mixed brass will have you slightly crushing primers and some not seating completely.

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[Blacksamwell]

Pretty good press for the money. I had problems with the priming system as well. [...] Works great now. I will say that the pivoting arm doesn't work anywhere as well as the plunger style they use on the pro1000 which I have also. You need to use same headstamp brass once you get it dialed in on the loadmaster. Variations in mixed brass will have you slightly crushing primers and some not seating completely.

I would second the issue with certain headstamps and primer issues depending on caliber. For 45 ACP all headstamps have worked fine but for 40 S&W I have to cull out the "CBC" and "HRTRS" brass. If I swage the primer pockets of those CBC and HRTRS brass they'll go through the loadmaster without issue.

[BeerBaron]

I'll second the tip about running a size die in s2. On my toolheads I had one with universal decapper in s1 then sizer (pin removed) in s2. Also had just regular lee sizers in s1 and s2 (pin removed) and my 3rd toolhead had sizer in s1 and u die in s2 (pin removed). It does help give nice consistent seating of primers.

[fmj3]

Looks like you just need the case feeder kit & collator - about $30 total

Two things to adjust the indexing - the flipper depth (I set mine for just a hair of shell plate wiggle when the ram is down) and the carrier body (loosen the screw at the bottom of the ram to rotate it so the flipper hits the indexing tabs & slide correctly on the frame). The beveled edge on the index rod goes a specific direction. It's a really super simple design and I'm sure you'll have no issues making run like a top - probably be posting some helpful hints before too long.

loadmastervideos dot com has a ton of info.

I do the sizing on 1 and have u-die half way threaded in 2 like some above and have very few priming issues. I run mixed brass no problem, I have the primer seating depth just a little over inserting for a super firm primer seating.

The micro-charge bar is garbage IMO.

Edited December 13, 2015 by fmj3

[jmorris]

I have got the indexing figured out and will stop complaining about the paw adjustment on an LNL now.

I have a case feed on the way but for my playing I'll connect it to one of my Dillon collators.

Next area to look at will be the priming system.

[Blacksamwell]

The micro-charge bar is garbage IMO.

For what it is worth, I really like the micro-charge bar.

I had to tune the powder measure a bit to ensure consistent function, but now that it is dialed in I get very consistent drops and I really like being able to adjust the charge without taking anything apart.

To make it work consistently I had to coat the elastomer wiper in powdered graphite to prevent the wiper from deforming and jacking up the flow of powder.

I also had to adjust the throw a bit. With the measure assembled and on the press I stood on a stool to look down into the measure with a flashlight. I could see that the micro-bar was not pulling back all the way under the hole. This forced the powder to flow under a lip to fill the charge bar and, of course, it won't do this consistently. I pulled the measure apart and filed a little bit of material from the end of the powder drop tube. This will adjust the position of the charge bar at rest, moving it more fully under the hole where the powder flows down out of the hopper. I went slowly and kept fitting it until I could just barely see the front wall of the charge bar appearing when I looked down into the powder measure when it was installed on the press.

Before I'd made these adjustments the micro-bar would randomly give inconsistent/light loads. After making these adjustments I've used nothing but the micro-bar for my 9/40/45 loads. Drops are extremely consistent and I'm getting standard deviations in my velocity data that's in the single digits. YMMV.

[glynnm45]

I have got the indexing figured out and will stop complaining about the paw adjustment on an LNL now.

I have a case feed on the way but for my playing I'll connect it to one of my Dillon collators.

Next area to look at will be the priming system.

Magic Mike will be your friend, give his mods a look. www.mikesreloadingbench.com

[dave33]

The micro-charge bar is garbage IMO.

For what it is worth, I really like the micro-charge bar.

I had to tune the powder measure a bit to ensure consistent function, but now that it is dialed in I get very consistent drops and I really like being able to adjust the charge without taking anything apart.

To make it work consistently I had to coat the elastomer wiper in powdered graphite to prevent the wiper from deforming and jacking up the flow of powder.

I also had to adjust the throw a bit. With the measure assembled and on the press I stood on a stool to look down into the measure with a flashlight. I could see that the micro-bar was not pulling back all the way under the hole. This forced the powder to flow under a lip to fill the charge bar and, of course, it won't do this consistently. I pulled the measure apart and filed a little bit of material from the end of the powder drop tube. This will adjust the position of the charge bar at rest, moving it more fully under the hole where the powder flows down out of the hopper. I went slowly and kept fitting it until I could just barely see the front wall of the charge bar appearing when I looked down into the powder measure when it was installed on the press.

Before I'd made these adjustments the micro-bar would randomly give inconsistent/light loads. After making these adjustments I've used nothing but the micro-bar for my 9/40/45 loads. Drops are extremely consistent and I'm getting standard deviations in my velocity data that's in the single digits. YMMV.

I also modified my adjustable charge bar to make it work with light charges. Took some JB weld and moved the cavity backward to put the opening directly under the hopper. Works like a charm. However, my new lee auto drum works so well I have mothballed the disks and charge bar. Dont ever see using them again.

I will be curious how jmorris's Loadmaster experience goes. Maybe after spending a little time with it he will like it so much his used Dillon stuff with show up in the classifieds. :goof:

[Blacksamwell]

I also modified my adjustable charge bar to make it work with light charges. Took some JB weld and moved the cavity backward to put the opening directly under the hopper. Works like a charm.

Yup, I've seen write-ups on using JB Weld to shape the hole in the charge bar. Different approach that gives the same results.

When it came time to try dropping less than 3 grains of titegroup I had to remove the adjustable center portion of the micro-bar and sanded down the points of the face of the moving bar. That let it close a little more and I was able to dial it down to 2.9 and 2.8 grains. I was plesantly surprised to see that it still throws consistent charges with such a low throw weight. But then again I was using titegroup and it flows very well through measures. I wouldn't expect the same with a flake powder like CLAYS.

[jmorris]

Magic Mike will be your friend, give his mods a look. www.mikesreloadingbench.com

Yes, after reading, watching other things that made it seem like one didn't want the plastic "flipper" rotating on the index arm every time the press cycled and making then posting some measurements in another forum his advice was the same I found as far as making it work.

In short it is rotating on the threads to work.

[USAFA82]

Lots of good advice above. Another good source of information is Ranch Dog's Lee-Loader Forum. Ranch Dog has several loadmasters that were misbehaving and has resorted to using Magic Mike's services...

I've also seen good reviews of the new Lee Auto Drum powder measure. It is now on my short list.

[380Lover]

I must be the 'lucky one' with my LM Primer station: other than (me) feeding it small primer cases with large primers, it hasn't given me a single bug, even after I accidentally broke the original primer feeder's nylon arm off (changing the shellplate) and had to get another one (Lee sent it free!). I only have issues with the Case Feeder: if there are more than 12 cases in the feed tube it will not push the case all the way under the sizing die (I use that in Size/Decap at #1). It gets closer and closer until 11 are in the tube, then it feeds all the way. This one has me stumped, but hasn't stopped me from loading 10k .45 ACP in all sorts of 'flavors' this past 2 years with it. I've not seen more than 0.1g of powder difference with Titegroup, 700x, 800x, W231 or HS6, either: I am using the supplied Auto Disk for powder (just bought their new one, haven't tried it yet) and still the original chain(!). Maybe I am not hard enough on it? :)

 

I do have occasional issues with the index flipper: from the hints above I will take a closer look at the Carrier orientation, it could be 'off' from the things I have accidentally done to it. I do find this a forgiving Press, though!

[jmorris]

Once you know how to make them work, it’s easy to keep them working.

 

I didn’t use the Loadmaster case feed as they originally intended, rather fed it with a Dillon collator.  So not sure how many cases were in the tube but it wasn’t full to the top.

 

The orange thing clamped to the case feed tube is a proximity switch that starts/stops the collator.

 

SPP cases with large primers can be quite the issue with the LM as you don’t seat with “feel” like most other presses.

 

I have made a couple different devices to take the human error part out of sorting cases.  This one is stand alone.

 

 

[Jfitz427]

My loadmaster has been great. I was so worried that the priming system wasn’t going to work after all I read, but I haven’t had a single problem with it. The press has been absolutely amazing. Last night I was timing myself on runs of 100 and this is while pulling the handle at a comfortable pace, not racing or anything. 9 minutes was the best time, average was right around 10. This is with the case feeder,  and no bullet feeder. I use a powder check die in station 4 and seat and crimp in station 5. When I load up 6 trays of primers I usually can do 600 or so in an hour. It takes just a little tweaking from time to time, but nothing like it’s made out to be. Having to mess with it all the time. 

 

But my next press will be a 1050. 7 stations so I can run a bullet feeder, powder check, and seat and crimp in seperate steps. The load master is a lot of machine for 247 dollars.