40 with 180 FP issues

[Echd]

Greetings,

Taking my first foray into 40 bit having some issues.

I am using a g35 with stock barrel. Projectiles are powder coated lee 175 grain bullets (actual weight is right at 185 with my mix). I am getting no leading regardless of load used.

The gun has had quite a bit of aftermarket work done to it. I purchased it as is for a very good price, but I have almost all of the original parts as well.

One part I will mention is that it came with an EFK dual spring system installed. I dont actually know much about this part. I do not know what the stock spring weight is or what it roughly equates to witb a traditional spring setup. I also have captive ismi setups for 11, 13, and 15 pounds. I have a zev 14 pound spring and a 20 pound glock meister also.

My first load used was 4.5 grain titegroup with noted bullet. I tried this for the very lazy reason that I had it in the hopper for my 550 and it was too little remaining for me to want to put it back in the container.

It shot great, dead on to POA. However I really do get the heebie jeebies with such dense powders in handguns. I really like something fluffier for safety reasons. I have never had a kb and don't plan to.

I also am new to loading the 40, and despite knowing that most 40 common knowledge on the internet is pretty wrong and out there, I still approach it with a lot of caution. A glock, lead bullets, reloads, range pickup brass, and dense powder? If the gun didn't explode then I would probably be struck by lightning according to gunshop and gun board wisdom... I don't put much stock in that but I have witnessed a couple of glocks in 40 let go years ago with duty ammo during quals, so my caution was well founded I feel.

I opted instead for power pistol, which I have a lot of and which I see is supposedly THE 40 and 10mm powder. Using the same bullet and OAL I consulted the lee manual (Alliant powder data is sparse and only geared to speer bullets, few makers have 180 gr lead data if they have any data at all). Knowing that Lee lead data always trends towards light, I started in the middle of the recommended loads with 6.5 grains of powe pistol.

Results were dismal. Groups were massive at 25 yards and all over the place. However what sort of scared me was the feeling that some rounds were recoilin perceptible harder than others, yet the gun was regularly failing to either go into battery or reset the trigger. Probably 2 of 10 rounds would have an issue. All rounds which fired ejected fine but frequently I would have to rack the slide anyway.

Fearing a variance in charge was at play, I pulled over half of the rounds but found only minimal variance.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Echd

[Echd]

Sorry for the interrupted post, a phone call caused me to post that as I was typing. I will finish my thoughts shortly. ..

[Echd]

In any case, the erratic recoil had me concerned and I still cannot figure out a reason for it. I could have been holding the gun gingerly and not thinking about it, being frustrated with the terrible reliability of that load, and just felt the recoil more sharply as a result.

The failures to fire and inability of the loads to recock the gun are more distressing. Having ascertained that nothing is wrong with the ammunition other than perhaps the gun not liking that load, I am inclined to try a change of springs. I have not chrono graphed the load yet but it should be standard velocity at best, nothing exceptional.

The accuracy was atrocious as well, to a point I was checking to see if my RMR had come loose. 6 to 7 inch patterns at 25 yards. Returning to the last of the titegroup loads showed the perfect poa I had experienced at first.

Has anyone else experienced trouble with the efk firedragon dual spring setup? Again, it ran perfectly with the titegroup loads, but terribly with the power pistol. What spring weight would you recommend for a g35 and standard velocity ammunition? Has anyone else experienced any strange issues with that recoil spring setup?

The 40 seems to be a tougher nut to crack than most other auto rounds, so I appreciate any input you may be able to offer. I have not tried roll sizing or bulge busting- feeding has not been an issue at all and all rounds freely chamber with no visibly pregnant brass being expelled.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Echd

[Steven420]

Ditch the EFK. Start with the 14lb ZEV spring. Drop your powder charge to minimum and work up in .2gr increments till your happy.

I think factory spring weight is 17lb. I always ran a 14-15 lb spring in mine.

FWIW I have a 20lb in my G20 10mm and run Underwood and Buffalo Bore with it...so I doubt it will ever be needed in your 35..

[rstandley]

I run a similar set up to yours. I have run 4.5 grs. of titegroup for years. The power pistol likes max charge and has a very pronounced bark and recoil. After the one pound I had I never went back. N320 is a good power for .40, as for the fluffy stuff, WST, American Select, ETR7 and Green Dot would be my selections. 4.2 Grs. is a good start point. I usually wind up in the 4.5-4.8 range for major power factor in the 170 range using a 180 gr. bullet. OAL should be in the 1.125-1.135 range for Glocks.

[Daft]

do not shoot idpa, but for action pistol and 3gun, for shooting steel, using 4.0 HP38 and 13# spring. For the mgm spinner or other targets that need more momentum I bump the powder up to stated just under the maximum per Hogdon site, same spring.

[ruleyoutoo1911]

I hate to be that guy, but why not just stick with 4.5 grains of Titegroup? You said it shot great and to your desired POI, seems like you are searching for the answer to a non existent problem.

I do understand your concern about it being a somewhat dense powder, but you could always get a light or a mirror, anything to make you feel comfortable verifying your powder charge in every case.

[Echd]

You are right, and plenty of times in the past I have loaded denser powders than I like. But I have seen a couple of glocks come apart with duty ammunition, not reloads, and I would be lying if I didn't say that does somewhat shake my confidence in them even if they do shoot well.

I know it is rare and being careful can negate it completely but being careful rarely hurts.

More than anything I am still very confused why the powder pistol loads shot so poorly. I had always heard and read how good PP is in 40 and 10mm and I had quite a bit stocked back from when it was the only thing I could find a couple years ago.

I have changed out the recoil rod and sprints but daylights savings, weather, and work has kept me from getting to shoot this week other than sighting in for hunting season.

Man, my autocorrect is killing me! I promise I am literate...ish.

I load all my small primer ammo on a 550 and large on a 650 (my heart will always belong to 45acp). If I loaded the 40 on my 650 I might be more willing to use titegroup. Maybe I will look into it.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Echd

[ruleyoutoo1911]

I was just curious, I started loading .40 recently myself, I have been using 4.2 grains of Titegroup with 165 gr Xtreme bullets and seems to be a nice little target load. I haven't had the chance to chrono them yet, I have run into the same problem with too much work and not enough daylight.

I completely understand that one, do whatever you feel is necessary to be careful and confident in your loads.

I can't speak to Power Pistol, as I have never used it. From what I have read it is a little slower burning powder with quite a bit of muzzle flash, so I have never tried it since I am mainly loading ammo for practice and matches.

[BryanHoover]

Several guys that I shoot with use TG in their 40. They have ran thousands of rounds without blowing anything up.....

[Dr Mitch]

You read that Power Pistol is awesome. You found out that it actually sucks. Lesson learned. Now go buy at least 8lbs of Titegroup and learn the way of the gun.

[peterthefish]

What velocity were you getting with that load? What's the max? IMO PP plays best at or near max and will be snappier than TG. PP is good in 10mm and 40 because people want the high velocity it can get in those carts. N320 is a slightly bulkier alternative to TG.

[Echd]

Well, apparently it wasn't the power pistol, or maybe it was but just not like I thought.

I fired one round earlier today and had it lock back as if the magazine was empty (the magazine was not empty). Suspecting my spring weight was insufficient, I took it home and disassembled it a few minutes ago.

It might be hard to see in the picture, but take a gander:

Here's a picture of the inside of the barrel, best I could get anyway...

It still leaves me with several questions: When did this happen? I was instantly disappointed with the power pistol loads and they were troublesome from the start, but I shot a fair number of them.

Other than a feeling of erratic recoil, I never felt anything that felt like "dangerous" recoil. So I don't know when exactly this occurred.

It may have been bulged before I changed the springs- and probably was- but perhaps I didn't notice. The bulge is not very pronounced, and I only noticed it because I was running a brush through the barrel. I turned it over to look through it and saw the telltale ring in the barrel of a bulge.

I have never had a bulge occur before. My guess is a squib got in and I didn't catch it, or something. A double is not possible with power pistol, and I never had any issues with the titegroup, so an uncaught squib is the most likely cause.

In any case, I have a pair of new barrels coming- a Storm Lake 40 and a LW 40 to 9. They were already on the way before I found this, so I'll be more cautious in the future and consider it a cheap lesson. I'm just glad the gun itself wasn't damaged, or my hand/face/eyes.

Not a lot more I can add to that. Somewhere along the line I screwed up. At the same time, I got pretty lucky. So far as I know this is the only mistake I've made like this in about 10 years of reloading, which doesn't cheapen it or make it less of a mistake, but makes me feel like I still need to be as careful as possible.

Regardless, I did go buy an 8 lber of titegroup.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Echd

[ruleyoutoo1911]

Wow that's crazy. Glad you caught it! Do you think it happened with the Power Pistol loads? I guess it was a good excuse to upgrade your barrels.

Good call on the 8 pounder of Titegroup, I really have had good luck with it, it is one of my favorite powders.

[Echd]

Honestly, I really don't know. I load my 40 on a 550 and use a skylight, so I can't see myself missing a charge, but I think something like that must have happened.

At any rate, I have cast and shot about 2k of the Lee 401-175 bullet, powder coated, since this thread. Accuracy is good and reliability has been top notch, although I did have to run my brass through a bulge buster, but that was not unexpected.

[Echd]

I should probably add I have been shooting 4.5gr titegroup with said bullet. Very happy with the feel, recoil impulse, and it shooting at or very very close to POA of my suppressor sights at 25 ish yards.

[Blacksamwell]

That looks exactly like the bulge a shooting buddy of mine created in his M&P Pro barrel after failing to recognize a squib, racking the next round into the chamber, and firing the next shot. He was exactly three shots into a match when it happened. We had to carefully cut the barrel out of the slide with a Dremel cutoff wheel.