300 blk brass pricing?

[XxWoodsHunterxX]

What is the going rate for this stuff and why is it so expensive? There's got to be a better way.

[MarkCO]

I have paid $100 to have 1k pieces of once fired .223 converted. That makes it about $150/k.

[jmorris]

Here is 1k for $120 shipped.

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=179&t=79352

I have seen it as low as $89/1000 before shipping

There is an outfit in the commercial sales part of THR that has it for $99/1000.

The reason it cost what it does is the same reason places were selling .22lr for $0.30/ea, people want it and don't have the ability to make it.

Get something even harder to make like 458 socom and it's $640/1000.

[safeactionjackson]

I've decided to go a different way, I'll buy bulk once fired .223/5.56 and process it into 300 blackout myself.

~g

[XxWoodsHunterxX]

That's what I did but I'm trying to think of ways to offset my costs of the equipment. I'm into it $200 with the tool heads and dies. Just wondering if I should take all the .223 extras I have and. Convert it and try and sell. Maybe I should hop on that 300blk forum and look around

[jmorris]

I'll be honest and say I had no use for the 300 whisper/ blk until I built a machine to cut .223 brass down...Not that I have a use for the round now but at least I can use the brass I tested the machine with.

Edited January 17, 2015 by jmorris

[blind bat]

Jmorris - At some point in the future we will erect a Benos hall of fame and you will be one of the first inducties for significant contributions to mad science. You should start a brass trimming service. It might offset the cost of future inventions.

[freakshow10mm]

What is the going rate for this stuff and why is it so expensive? There's got to be a better way.

People will pay the high prices, that's why. High volume processing can be done with a motorized trimmer. The actual trimming and forming isn't labor intensive, it's the lubing and cleaning part that sucks. If you are shooting a bolt rifle, buying 1K and being set might be the ticket. Otherwise use a small lathe type trimmer and use a pipe cutter to take it off at the shoulder. That's how I did it before I got a Dillon trimmer.

[rdinga]

Jmorris must have some engineering/machinist mojo to come up with all the cool toys he makes.

[jmorris]

Jmorris - At some point in the future we will erect a Benos hall of fame and you will be one of the first inducties for significant contributions to mad science. You should start a brass trimming service. It might offset the cost of future inventions.

That sounds like a great way to tae the fun out of it...what does something like they pay anyway...

Thanks though, I do enjoy building things.

[Brassaholic13]

Manufacturing .300 blackout isn't all that simple, unless you're starting from new 5.56 or .223 cases. Think of all the cases you've seen over the years with garbage necks. Yes, those can be turned into .300 blk, so long as there's no damage to the case body. So here goes...

Assuming you've got your stuff turned up, you can run 2500 pieces an hour with ZERO jams, that's perfection, which never occurs in processing, even on a 1050.

You take your NEW or GOOD 5.56/.223 brass and chuck it into the machine for decap/swage/rough cut. 2500 pieces, one hour... Then, you go back a second time through the machine and final trim and final size, now you're down to 1250 rounds per hour.

Now, if you're salvaging the cases with bad necks but good bodies, the process changes a bit. Because the neck is beat up, you can't get your decapping pin in the neck. So, you first run it through the press to rough cut it and expose the primer. 2500 pieces. A second pass will then decap/swage. 1250 pieces/hr net. Finally, a third pass final trims and sizes...834/hr.

Can you do it in less steps? Probably... Can you do it consistently right in less steps? Not likely. So to convert 2500 pieces of good brass, it's 2 hours work with no jams. To convert 2500 pieces from brass salvaged (which requires hand sorting not described above), 3 hours of work, no jams.

Now, let's add in some more labor, say 30 minutes to take the time to load the tumbler, empty the tumbler, and rinse the brass, plus lay it out on the towel. I can do about 18 lbs per tumbler load.

Starting to see yet where the price comes from? Most shops will charge 50-60/hr in labor to survive, thanks to the gubement taxing the hell out of everything. When you're talking 2.5-3.5 hours to make 2500 pieces you're between $125-$175 in labor alone for 2500 pieces ($50-$70/1k), plus the raw cost of the brass, plus fixed and variable overhead costs.

For those who process brass for a living, it's a business. It's not done as a hobby. You guys can do it for a hobby because you have the spare time to be able to. Some others don't have the time or may not have the knowledge, or the time to learn, or hate the processing part, which is why there's a market for .300 blk and other processed brass.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Brassaholic13

[jmorris]

I cut my brass first then size and trim. Bad neck/no neck (blanks) no difference in the process.

The time problem is the reason for automation. It doesn't really matter if the machine will only do 1200/hr if the operator only spends a fraction of that hour starting it, keeping collators full and moving brass to the next operation.

When automation is at its best all operations are preformed with little input from humans.

To put it another way, if you had to keep an eye on the ice maker in your fridge to make sure it was doing its job, it wouldn't be worth having.

Edited January 19, 2015 by jmorris

[Brassaholic13]

I cut my brass first then size and trim. Bad neck/no neck (blanks) no difference in the process.

The time problem is the reason for automation. It doesn't really matter if the machine will only do 1200/hr if the operator only spends a fraction of that hour starting it, keeping collators full and moving brass to the next operation.

When automation is at its best all operations are preformed with little input from humans.

To put it another way, if you had to keep an eye on the ice maker in your fridge to make sure it was doing its job, it wouldn't be worth having.

When you can control every case that you get from the military, to ensure that the head has no burrs on it and feeds absolutely perfectly every time into the shell plate, let me know and I'll buy from your source.

Until then whether it's 500/hr, or 2500/hr, it's something that will cause a jam. When it's 2500/hr, you just run into those jams sooner than later.

[jmorris]

When you can control every case that you get from the military, to ensure that the head has no burrs on it and feeds absolutely perfectly every time into the shell plate, let me know and I'll buy from your source.

Until then whether it's 500/hr, or 2500/hr, it's something that will cause a jam. When it's 2500/hr, you just run into those jams sooner than later.

That is just another machine and why I automated my roll sizer as soon as I bought it.

Does it take more steps to process brass? Yes. However you can mitigate the extra time with the automation.

Same reason folks feed Camdex and Ammoload machines processed brass, 4000 rounds an hour isn't worth a dam if the machine stops every 100.

[Kaskillo]

Garbage in garbage out.

To me the most important step is to feed my Presses and Case-pro with "good" brass.

If the brass goes thru my Case-pro I know It is all sorted and ready to load. There is NO way around it, you have to take the time and inspect the brass before you process/load otherwise you will have issues and the jams will render useless the automation and speed.