Range Journal: breakingcontact

[breakingcontact]

Removed video as it was distracting from the conversation.

M&P 9mm: FO front sight and Sevigny Comp rear sight, Apex FSS trigger

200 rounds of mixed fire (as noted on the image)

*My annotation on the image above is very approximate. For instance, on the double taps, I would hit center then pull a shot if shooting quickly. Same when trying to really push speed, I'd hit center, walk out and come back.

The rapid fire splits in this first video are 0.18-0.22 second splits.

I used an IDPA practice target as usual. I'm shooting a bit faster than I "should" in these videos, but that is part of the process of improving.

I am shooting at 5 yards. I'm finding out where my limits are with speed at this range and next time I hit the range I'll probably step it out to 7 yards and then 10.

My goal is to shoot around 0.25 splits at this relatively close range and somewhere from 0.35-0.50 at 7/10 yards. I don't want to say things "came off the rails" when I dipped down into the 0.15-0.20 range as you can see I was still getting hits on target but low scoring hits. I was also working on double taps today as that really should help me in IDPA where I typically shoot pretty accurately, but too slowly to be competitive.

I plan on using the large backstrap the next time I hit the range to see if that helps as I was surprised how easily I was able to shoot the blocky G26 well without having shot one before. The medium backstrap is more comfortable in my hand but maybe the large will help me hold the gun more firmly and recover my sights more quickly. I think it may help me center my group better too by giving less finger to the trigger. I need to raise my group up too by covering my POA with the front sight instead of doing the lollipop.

I know some of you are great shooters and im open to advice. I know a few basic drills now and try to mix up my practice.

**I want to keep getting better and think that some of my lessons learned may help others and know others will have some good advice for me as well. If this post is received well, I may keep posting videos/reviews/updates as I (hopefully) keep improving. #positivepush

Edited December 2, 2014 by breakingcontact

[Glock26Toter]

So, the first question I'll ask you is, what sport are you after here? IDPA?
If that's the case then think about the drill you are performing and what that's replicating in the sport. (I have ZERO IDPA experience) However; From a USPSA perspective that's not a usefull drill because
we would never fire off a string of shots like that. You aren't practicing splits... you are practicing emptying a magazine.
A split is the time between two WELL PLACED (Aimed) shots. There's no such thing as a double-tap.
So in order to practice plits you need to either put more targets up and then look at your split times contrasted with your transition times. OR, just shoot two rounds
and look at your splits. BUT your split times don't count if they are not accurate. In other words, if a .15 results in an Alpha-Delta hit or Alpha-Mike, then it doesn't matter what the
time is... it's too fast.
As an example you mention .15-.20 "splits" and I can tell you from my own experience and experiementation (where have I heard that sentence?) that you are trying for
some seriously high-end (A Class/Master class) times there. Based on your vid that's a bit advanced for you.

Here's what I think you should do.
Work on testing YOUR ability based on skills that apply to your sport. Maybe advice from some other local shooters a class or two above you.
Then work on some baselines with what YOU can do and how fast YOU can do it. Like, maybe work on maintaining your Yellow Zone hits at increasing distances and times until you fall into the Red zone.
Then from those numbers you can work on some goals to meet incremental improvements within the Yellow zone. (if that zone is your acceptable accuracy.)

In my case, I didn't even think about improvement based on technical numbers until I was well into B Class and going for A. Up to that point, the list would have been overwhelming
and I was just trying to make it through the courses without "doing something stupid."

I hope this helps a bit. I'm guessing a lot.

[breakingcontact]

So, the first question I'll ask you is, what sport are you after here? IDPA?

Yes

If that's the case then think about the drill you are performing and what that's replicating in the sport. (I have ZERO IDPA experience) However; From a USPSA perspective that's not a usefull drill because

we would never fire off a string of shots like that. You aren't practicing splits... you are practicing emptying a magazine.

A split is the time between two WELL PLACED (Aimed) shots. There's no such thing as a double-tap.

I think there is training value in doing things that aren't replicating what is done in a match as well as replicating the matches. I understand your point certainly. Same with splits. The video there is about my limits, I "should" shoot 0.25/0.30 splits or so at that relatively short distance to have -0 accuracy reliably. I post it to see if anyone had any input on my grip/stance or anything like that. I didn't blast 200 rounds like that. I did a variety of shooting and didn't record/post it all.

So in order to practice splits you need to either put more targets up and then look at your split times contrasted with your transition times. OR, just shoot two rounds

and look at your splits. BUT your split times don't count if they are not accurate. In other words, if a .15 results in an Alpha-Delta hit or Alpha-Mike, then it doesn't matter what the

time is... it's too fast.

As an example you mention .15-.20 "splits" and I can tell you from my own experience and experiementation (where have I heard that sentence?) that you are trying for

some seriously high-end (A Class/Master class) times there. Based on your vid that's a bit advanced for you.

Understood, I did some of that in the next video I'll post. I shoot mid-low level in IDPA. I am certainly not "high end", know that, and that's why I'm here looking for pointers.

Here's what I think you should do.

Work on testing YOUR ability based on skills that apply to your sport. Maybe advice from some other local shooters a class or two above you.

Then work on some baselines with what YOU can do and how fast YOU can do it. Like, maybe work on maintaining your Yellow Zone hits at increasing distances and times until you fall into the Red zone.

Then from those numbers you can work on some goals to meet incremental improvements within the Yellow zone. (if that zone is your acceptable accuracy.)

I appreciate that. I had a conversation about this very thing with a friend of mine who is a really good competitive shooter today. Next time I hit the range I plan on slowing it down some and backing out to 7/10 yards.

In my case, I didn't even think about improvement based on technical numbers until I was well into B Class and going for A. Up to that point, the list would have been overwhelming

and I was just trying to make it through the courses without "doing something stupid."

I hope this helps a bit. I'm guessing a lot.

I appreciate the input and advice.

[breakingcontact]

See if this helps or adds fuel to the fire.

I'm shooting a bit fast here, I can "get away" with this at 5 yards. I know I can't do this at 7/10 yards or more. Any big errors in the mechanics? Anything I could do better?

Removed video as it was causing a distraction from this conversation.

I do believe having the ability to get off a couple of -0 shots in 0.20 does have value in case there are close up targets (there often are).

I didn't come here to hot dog, I know most folks shooting competitions are better than me. That's why I'm asking here and not just on some hunting forum.

I went to my first IDPA match and was like...holy cow. These old guys were running circles around me in terms of ability. Up until then I was just another guy at the range, making nice little groups, shooting slowly and just on one target and not moving.

I started shooting around people who were better than me and I wanted to get better. I've shot a handful of matches. I plan to take a formal class in 2015. I have good accuracy when firing slow, I am good at reloads.

I know there is no magic to this.

Fundamentals, can always be practiced and honed.

There is a mental component as well. Typically at IDPA matches, I'm pretty accurate but too slow. I don't "trust" the sights enough and hold the gun on target too long before making the shot. This increases with distance.

Glock26Toter mentioned transitions...that is another area I need to work on. I tend to follow the gun to the next target instead of seeing the target, then putting the gun on it. A couple more things I need to practice are using cover and shooting while moving.

Hopefully I've answered some questions and that helps you all to help me.

Any links to specific drills will be doubly appreciated.

Edited December 2, 2014 by breakingcontact

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Doing mag dumps at 5 yards and posting video of it, double taps, and such.

Hmmmmm

Nope

[breakingcontact]

Doing mag dumps at 5 yards and posting video of it, double taps, and such.

Hmmmmm

Nope

And being honest about where im at with my abilities and asking for advice to improve and this is your input?

What was the point of your comment?

Edited December 2, 2014 by breakingcontact

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Ok that was wrong of me,

For what's it's worth amigo;

Paste your targets. After a drill. 6 reload 6 etc. examine your performance then paste over your hits. Seeing a target with 200 holes in it reminds guys of the dark ages shooting at the dump.

Every shot you fire has purpose bro. After each drill you owe it to yourself to reset and start new. Did those bullets go exactly where you wanted them to?

You really owe it to yourself to just search and read. I don't mean to be a wanker, I'm nobody here, just have payed attention and want to save you some headache.

[breakingcontact]

Ok that was wrong of me,

For what's it's worth amigo;

Paste your targets. After a drill. 6 reload 6 etc. examine your performance then paste over your hits. Seeing a target with 200 holes in it reminds guys of the dark ages shooting at the dump.

Every shot you fire has purpose bro. After each drill you owe it to yourself to reset and start new. Did those bullets go exactly where you wanted them to?

You really owe it to yourself to just search and read. I don't mean to be a wanker, I'm nobody here, just have payed attention and want to save you some headache.

I appreciate the more thoughtful follow up. I did take the videos down as I dont want to appear like some wanker either.

Ill keep that in mind next time I hit the range. Ill do some drills and take some pix of the results.

Thanks again.

Any specific drills you recommend as a good measuring point to start?

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Well since I made a poor showing by being rude I need to own it.

I'm really not In a position to be too helpful as you have said you are an IDPA guy and I've never shot a match in that discipline. But I guess shooting accurately at speed crosses all disciplines.

the biggest skill that advances most guys game is really learning to watch the front sight. The first thing guys will jump on is any reference to "double taps" like 26 toter said, each shot is aimed.

Really if you want to get some traction in gun games, a universal recommendation is to read the books by the contemporary greats in this sport. 5 minutes searching and you will know who they are.

The classic drills like el presidente and bill drill will give you a great starting point.

Dot torture is another classic.

Good shooting amigo!

[breakingcontact]

Well since I made a poor showing by being rude I need to own it.

I'm really not In a position to be too helpful as you have said you are an IDPA guy and I've never shot a match in that discipline. But I guess shooting accurately at speed crosses all disciplines.

the biggest skill that advances most guys game is really learning to watch the front sight. The first thing guys will jump on is any reference to "double taps" like 26 toter said, each shot is aimed.

Really if you want to get some traction in gun games, a universal recommendation is to read the books by the contemporary greats in this sport. 5 minutes searching and you will know who they are.

The classic drills like el presidente and bill drill will give you a great starting point.

Dot torture is another classic.

Good shooting amigo!

Understood. Things are tricky on the internet. If I came across like a jerk thats on me too as I posted some videos that without context would lead to the assumption I was just doing mag dumps and calling it training.

Im not so much an IDPA guy as thats what I've shot. From what ive seen in IPSC/USPSA...im not ready for that.

Ive done else presidente and the dollar drill. I have had dot torture recommended to me and may try that next range visit. Ill try and update this with results as well. If I post any videos ill make the more representative of the entirety of my range session.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[grapemeister]

I find that I do much better on closer targets, five yards or closer, the more I practice on 10 and 15 yard targets. Practicing controlled doubles, or pairs, on 10 and 15 yard targets will keep you honest and will give you a lot more useful feedback. If you're not practicing the fundamentals at any distance it will certainly show on the target, such the one you posted. The fundaments being grip, sight picture, calling your shots, etc.

I would make what is acceptable a lot smaller than the -0 zone, or what ever it's called in IDPA. Maybe something about half the size of the circle, and practice shooting it one shot at a time...sight picture, bang, sight picture, bang etc, etc. No matter how long it takes between shots, whether it's 2 seconds or .30 seconds; however long it takes to hit the small circle within the big circle on the target.

Do that over and over, all the while calling your shots, and improving on the fundamentals. Only use the timer to start, and pay no attention to the splits for a long time. Once your getting the groups you want, then start pushing the speed, and maybe start checking the timer for your split times.

A nice firm well balanced grip, seeing the sights, pulling the trigger without disturbing the sights, and calling your shots will take you a long way in getting where you want to be. Everything stays the same on each shot, whether it's the 1st shot or 2nd shot. Flyers on the 2nd shot means something changed, something wasn't seen, or both.

It's also useful to shoot six shot groups. Shoot six shots as fast as you can while maintaining a small group will, or can teach you a lot. But, I would do the above 1st, at least for a while.

[breakingcontact]

Good advice. Ill try shooting 6 shot groups. I usually shoot at 5-7-10 yards. 15 will be good for me to do.

[grapemeister]

Par times really help you out with 6 shot drills. You can start at any distance. Some instructors have you start at 5 to 7 yard distance, establish a par time that allows for an acceptable group at that distance, and then gradually back up to 10, 15, 20 and 25 yards. For each distance establish a par time that allows for an acceptable group. Over time you want to gradually reduce the par time at each distance.

From looking at your targets it appears you're basically point shooting, maybe trying to time the shot, and just pulling the trigger on the 2nd shot without regard for sight picture, calling your shot, etc. Remember, it's two separate and well aimed shots. I would work on 2 shots drills for a while before doing the 6 shot drills.

[grapemeister]

Here is a YouTube link for another good drill. Really listen to what Rob has to say. Watch and listen to it 10 times, if necessary.

[breakingcontact]

Par times really help you out with 6 shot drills. You can start at any distance. Some instructors have you start at 5 to 7 yard distance, establish a par time that allows for an acceptable group at that distance, and then gradually back up to 10, 15, 20 and 25 yards. For each distance establish a par time that allows for an acceptable group. Over time you want to gradually reduce the par time at each distance.

From looking at your targets it appears you're basically point shooting, maybe trying to time the shot, and just pulling the trigger on the 2nd shot without regard for sight picture, calling your shot, etc. Remember, it's two separate and well aimed shots. I would work on 2 shots drills for a while before doing the 6 shot drills.

Thats pretty close. The first shot is good, the second..I "see the sights" but its not a good sight picture. Need to slow down...but shooting fast and finding my limits is part of improving. Edited December 2, 2014 by breakingcontact

[breakingcontact]

Here is a YouTube link for another good drill. Really listen to what Rob has to say. Watch and listen to it 10 times, if necessary.

Thanks. Ill save that vid.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Have you tried the Dot Torture Drill?

My personal favorite.

[breakingcontact]

Have you tried the Dot Torture Drill?

My personal favorite.

Just bookmarked that and downloaded the target. Ive had it recommended several times. Plan to try it next time I hit the range.

[breakingcontact]

What distance do you all propose I start from with the dot torture? And am I going for maximum accuracy and not concerned with speed in this drill?

[Glock26Toter]

Wow, this thread got some action. Looks like you received some good advice from everyone and you can narrow all this down into an action plan or list of goals to start working on. Keep posting what you are doing. My Journal is 100% for ME. I post like nobody will read it, and if someone does and helps me out, GREAT. If not, the general idea is to journal so you can keep track of your goals and improvements for yourself. Here's a couple more nuggets for you.

Read Lanny Bassham's "With winning in mind" to get the idea behind mental management for improvement and take these drills and go for it. Have fun!

I honesty have a lot more fun now that I consciously walk away from a stage with "did you see me hit that plate rack?!" instead of "Yeah but I got a Mike."

Also, I noticed that you said "I'm not ready" when it comes to USPSA shooting. I call bullshit. Don't let vids and these posts deter you from going for it. Us USPSA guys are just a bunch of nice people having fun. Just like IDPA we are all about the new shooters and enjoy helping people out and we ALL started at the bottom looking at the people ahead of us wishing we were there. The two disciplines are different from each other in rules, method, people, and equipment. People argue back and forth about which is "better" but the bottom line is they are two sides of the same ass-kicking coin. Try both and pick your favorite but don't feel like you "have to be ready" for either.

[breakingcontact]

I shot the dot torture drill today.

Printed the wrong target (DA/SA) so had to edit it after.

Here's my best of 3.

[breakingcontact]

So using my laser cartridge...I shot 50/50 in the garage tonight. I surprisingly shot 5/5 support hand only.

So...somebody is flinching anticipating recoil...

Whats my solution? Shoot one dry fire five drill?

[breakingcontact]

45/50 today

[grapemeister]

So using my laser cartridge...I shot 50/50 in the garage tonight. I surprisingly shot 5/5 support hand only.

So...somebody is flinching anticipating recoil...

Whats my solution? Shoot one dry fire five drill?

It took me about a year to get over a flinch. I don't think there was any one thing that helped me rather than a combination of things. I think the first big hurdle was acknowledging that I had a flinch. I think the next big breakthrough was seeing the initial lift of the front sight and calling the shot every time no matter what and all the while not thinking about trying to control the recoil. I think flinches can come from different places. Some shooters flinch because of the big bang that's fixing to happen right front of their face, and some do it just out of the strong desire to control recoil, or a combination of both.

Sounds like yours comes form just a strong desire to control recoil, and anticipating it. I still do it, I'm sure, as many shooters do. It's like this struggle, or inner battle we have over wanting to control the firearm when if we just accept that the gun will do just fine, if we get the hell out of the way. I hope that makes some kind of since?

[breakingcontact]

So using my laser cartridge...I shot 50/50 in the garage tonight. I surprisingly shot 5/5 support hand only.

So...somebody is flinching anticipating recoil...

Whats my solution? Shoot one dry fire five drill?

It took me about a year to get over a flinch. I don't think there was any one thing that helped me rather than a combination of things. I think the first big hurdle was acknowledging that I had a flinch. I think the next big breakthrough was seeing the initial lift of the front sight and calling the shot every time no matter what and all the while not thinking about trying to control the recoil. I think flinches can come from different places. Some shooters flinch because of the big bang that's fixing to happen right front of their face, and some do it just out of the strong desire to control recoil, or a combination of both.

Sounds like yours comes form just a strong desire to control recoil, and anticipating it. I still do it, I'm sure, as many shooters do. It's like this struggle, or inner battle we have over wanting to control the firearm when if we just accept that the gun will do just fine, if we get the hell out of the way. I hope that makes some kind of since?

It makes sense. Some Zen stuff. Have to focus but not focus too much.