Practiscore Sync - "1 Shooter Changed"

[Graham Smith]

This is not the first time I've seen this but never thought about it until this morning.

When syncing the Nooks back to the master from yesterdays match, I had one stage Nook where it said that one shooter had changed and the apply changes button was staring me in the face.

My problem is that I don't know what was changed, why it was changed, or how to figure out what was changed. I also had no option but to accept the change or cancel the sync since I couldn't update the scores without updating the shooter.

So, now I've got a changed shooter in the master and, without going through every single entry, have no idea how to figure out what was changed and why and whether it was correct or not. I have no choice but to press on but I'd darn sure like to be able to:

1. Review any changes to Shooters

2. Skip changes to anything other than scores during the Sync

[jcwren]

On iOS, there's a little arrow to the right that will let you see the changes.

I can't remember if the Android version has something similar, because we use NOOKs for stage devices, and they only get synced once.

As a side point, it gets confusing as hell when we're talking about syncing, and if you're syncing TO a device or FROM a device. Seems that in the interest of customer support, some clearly defined terms need to be defined.

[jdphotoguy]

I always sync to my iPhone first just so I can see if any shooter info was changed and what that change(s) are. Once I've determined all is good, I sync to our master a Nexus 7.

[Graham Smith]

It was my understanding that all SYNCing in Practiscore is a PULL. This is different than a SYNC where two devices exchange information in a two way flow so that they are both the same afterward.

We have one Nook that is the Master and before a match, we go to each Stage Nook and PULL the stages and shooters to that Nook. After a match we take the Master and PULL the scores in from each Stage Nook. It is during that after match pull that I sometimes get a message that a shooter has changed.

During a match, no one should even get anywhere near a shooter definition or a stage definition. If I could, I would "lock" them into a stage scoring only mode with some kind of admin PW required to get out of that.

If I understand, the iOS version of PS could tell me what has changed. But we don't use an iOS master and are not likely to start.

Regardless of being able to see what has changed or not, the somewhat larger issue here is that it doesn't seem to be possible to ONLY Sync scores back to the Master if that is what is needed. It would be nice if the option existed either during the Sync or as a Preference of some kind.

[jcwren]

It is a pull. But like I said, if someone used the 'Move To Squad' button, that can cause a change warning.

I too wish the device could be locked into a "Score Only This Stage" mode (device stays on stage), or a "Score Only This Squad" (device follows squad). Probably has to be some way to handle a shoot-thru, which maybe is handled by mode 3, "Scoring Only". About the only thing I *might* consider allowing is 'Move Shooter To Squad', and that's iffy.

It is very frustrating to know that something has been changed, and that it's kind enough to warn you, but won't tell you WHAT changed.

To understand how this works, the match data is basically divided into two groups, "match definition", which contains the match type, date, shooters and stage definitions, and the "scores", which is purely the scores. While it should be possible to sync scores without being concerned that a SHOOTER has changed, if something in the match stages has changed, it MAY be necessary to sync the stage(s) before the scores, because otherwise the scores won't be correct. In supporting that, you've made the system more complex (be it a little or a lot, it's still MORE complex), and knowing when it's proper or not to accept changes.

The whole merge process is somewhat complex internally. For instance, it's not just the shooter record that has a timestamp, but about half a dozen fields inside the shooter record have timestamps. DQs, squad number, division, power factor and a couple others all have their own timestamps, and those can change without affecting the "shooter profile", which is their name, country, sex, military, law, etc. Basically, things which are directly relevant to affecting scores (again, power factor, division, DQ, DNF) are all tracked. The timestamps are used because, in theory, any device can be synced to another device, and as long as the clocks on the devices are within 10 minutes of each other, it can correctly propagate changes through the system.

This is what could be considered a problem with a peer-to-peer system, instead of a defined master/slave relationship. If you had a master, and the stage devices were all slaves, you could forbid slaves syncing to each other, and only the master can sync. But then a host of issues with having a single master can crop up, the worst of knowing who actually *is* the master. When you sync'ed stage devices to the master, you'd have to have a button somewhere that says "I'm a slave!", because you'd still need to allow a master to pass along it's "master status", so there can be backups of the master device, etc.

Any time you start merging data, be it on handheld devices, on super-computers, on networks, whatever, there's always the issue of accurately and correctly determining what data is more current. There's a whole sub-set of information theory that covers this kind of stuff.

So, yeah, it'd be better if there were finer grained control for people who know what they're doing, and a "Trust me, I'm from Microsoft and I'm here to help" setting for those that aren't. PractiScore is still evolving, and user input does get fed back into the system. A large number of the changes in it's evolution over the last couple years are direct user input. But it's got to be input that doesn't cover just cover your specific case, it's got to be a "all users" use case.

Edited August 17, 2014 by jcwren

[ZackJones]

I always sync to my iPhone first just so I can see if any shooter info was changed and what that change(s) are. Once I've determined all is good, I sync to our master a Nexus 7.

Good tip! I'm going to start doing that even though I can't remember a time when I've seen that a shooter's information had been changed.

[jdphotoguy]

I always sync to my iPhone first just so I can see if any shooter info was changed and what that change(s) are. Once I've determined all is good, I sync to our master a Nexus 7.

Good tip! I'm going to start doing that even though I can't remember a time when I've seen that a shooter's information had been changed.

Happens all to frequent with me. I tell folks to just score and if need be "Move Shooter to Squad" and that's it, but not everyone listens.

If there's a way for folks to screw up things, there's going to be some numb nut who think he/she knows what their doing is going to find it.

Just yesterday had a person give a shooter 4 Additional Penalties when they should have been 4 Procedurals. The Additional Penalties field is pretty well hidden, but this goof found it.

[Graham Smith]

But then a host of issues with having a single master can crop up, the worst of knowing who actually *is* the master.

"There can only be one Master." I understand this all too well and deal with this all the time in my work (try writing a computer routine to figure out if two mailing addresses from two sources are the same when each end has the ability to change the data.)

There are ways to deal with all of this but it means doing away with the Freestyle approach that's been the rule so far. Of course, I would argue that they way WE do it is the RIGHT way and everyone else should do it like WE do. And if I were King of the World, it would be a simpler place to live. But I'm not and it isn't so we all just have to do our best to muddle along.

My post was simply to point out that, if someone is using a basic system with a Master and Slave Nooks that there is a potential problem to be aware of.

[wgnoyes]

I suggest you reconsider and have an iOS device as the master. It has better features and reporting.

[Graham Smith]

I suggest you reconsider and have an iOS device as the master. It has better features and reporting.

<sigh> I give up. You guys are all correct - we should all do it your way. I'll just crawl back into my hole and stop reporting "bugs".

Edited August 18, 2014 by Graham Smith

[ZackJones]

<sigh> I give up. You guys are all correct - we should all do it your way. I'll just crawl back into my hole and stop reporting "bugs".

Quitter....just kidding. Don't give up man! You have brought up a valid point. When using an all Android system you can't see in advance what changes where made to a shooter. I'm fortunate to have iOS devices to performing a sync to it first will give me an opportunity to see changes. You're well within your right not NOT use an iOS device. If you haven't already do so log it in Mantis so the developers can put it on the to-do list.

[wgnoyes]

Both versions should look and function the same.