grip problems.

[sigsauerfan]

hi.i'm getting some problems at settling an optimal grip after reloads without loosing time with the ''repositionning'' of my grip which leads to a slower presentation .

as well , I'm not sure I'm applying the right amount of pressure in the correct direction on the gun.

I'm kind of applying a upward pressure with my support hand and a downward pressure with my strong .

I squeeze the gun 75%-25% weak-strong hand ,but it seems like I fail at getting a consistent ''bench'' for from my support hand for fast and accurate follow shots lol.

my first is always an A but I feel that i ''let the gun slips ''' slightly off grip whatsoever ,then gets too many Charlie and deltas . I suspect my support hand move vertically between shots which prevents a good follow shot.

of course the faster i go into the stage exacerbate the result.

my gun is a G35 gen 3.

Edited April 27, 2014 by sigsauerfan

[alma]

I recorded this video for another shooter but it may be helpful to you as well.

Make sure you are getting your weak hand properly engaged. You should be striving for a more even grip pressure with both hands. Consistency will came with practice and dry fire reloading practice seems like the best for building your consistency. Be sure to include half speed reloads and make sure everything is looking right before you start to speed up.

Edited April 27, 2014 by alma

[sigsauerfan]

thanks for this video.very instructive indeed.

my grip strongly ressemble yours, i've learned to wrap my weak hand around the strong as in the vids , however i squeeze weak-strong in a 75%-25% ratio ; then apply a downward push with the weak and upward push with the strong in an attempt at creating some sort of solid ''rest''' with the weak hand for a fast sight re-aquisition on the 2nd shot.

maybe i miss something though.

Edited April 28, 2014 by sigsauerfan

[alma]

Why the effort to apply downward/upward pressure?

[grapemeister]

Think neutral; no weak hand, strong hand percentages and no upward or downward pressure. You have to figure out what works best for you, but the technique as demonstrated by alma is used by many shooters for a strong and consistent grip that allows for consistency in letting the sights return to where they started.

I don't know if this will work for you but one thing you may want to try is slightly bending your thumbs while still keeping them in line with the bore (parallel with) and pointed towards the direction your aiming. Slightly bending the thumbs seems to help me with keeping them pointed straight ahead instead of pointed towards the sky. Keeping the thumbs pointed straight ahead seems to allow for a better grip on the gun, and a grip that last through multiple shots.

Edited April 28, 2014 by grapemeister

[sigsauerfan]

Think neutral; no weak hand, strong hand percentages and no upward or downward pressure. You have to figure out what works best for you, but the technique as demonstrated by alma is used by many shooters for a strong and consistent grip that allows for consistency in letting the sights return to where they started.

I don't know if this will work for you but one thing you may want to try is slightly bending your thumbs while still keeping them in line with the bore (parallel with) and pointed towards the direction your aiming. Slightly bending the thumbs seems to help me with keeping them pointed straight ahead instead of pointed towards the sky. Keeping the thumbs pointed straight ahead seems to allow for a better grip on the gun, and a grip that last through multiple shots.

yep i'll try that. i've been told that the upward-downward pressure weak-strong hand is supposed to help returning the sights to the exact level for the follow shot. mitigated results.

as well, i never thought specifically about the thumbs pointing in the target direction. haven't put much consideration into this aspect of my grip.

another aspect i'm questionning is how much strenght or pressure i should use to hold the gun correctly.

[alma]

yep i'll try that. i've been told that the upward-downward pressure weak-strong hand is supposed to help returning the sights to the exact level for the follow shot. mitigated results.

You need to punch whoever told you that in the nuts.

It's as flawed as the old school Weaver pull/push concept. get a strong neutral grip. the gun's recoil is perfectly capable of applying force during recoil. There is never a reason that you should be actively trying to add force in the same direction.

[sigsauerfan]

You need to punch whoever told you that in the nuts.

It's as flawed as the old school Weaver pull/push concept. get a strong neutral grip. the gun's recoil is perfectly capable of applying force during recoil. There is never a reason that you should be actively trying to add force in the same direction.

roger that.

i thought the up-down applied force was logical since theorically the front sight might '''fall back ''' exactly where it was after recoil . guess it's flawed in some ways.

anyways i realize all this (the grip i used till now ) is time consuming,and it does nothing to help keeping my grip intact for multiple shots.

i still don't get how i can get the sight inline fast after recoil.

Edited April 28, 2014 by sigsauerfan

[Nimitz]

+1 ... Stop trying to control recoil, let the gun recoil, you are not going to stop it and it is very counter productive to try. What you care about is not how much the gun recoils but that the sights track in the same manner every time you fire a shot. This will be your indication that you have achieved the required neutral grip ... Also if you routinely shoot A/C or A/D in addition to any grip issues you have you are not waiting for your sights to return to an acceptable sight picture for the target in question before pulling the trigger ...

Edited April 28, 2014 by Nimitz

[CHA-LEE]

Muzzle flip is for wussies. If you grip a handgun properly with sufficient grip pressure there should be very minimal muzzle flip. If your gun muzzle flips excessively, you are not gripping the gun properly or with enough grip pressure.

[CHA-LEE]

Examples.......... Observe the muzzle flip or lack there of for these world champion shooters.

Rob Letham

Blake Miguez

Bob Volgel

[sigsauerfan]

thanks for the vids cha-lee.

letham's gun seems very flat shooter...in his hands lol. i start to ask myself if shooting a glock could be a deterent factor to speed and accuracy .....probably not, but his gun seems to recoil so minimally, i know the way my 35 recoil is light years of his.

obviously,i don't use a perfect grip,and my brain-eyes aren't focusing on the right factors .

letham stated about tracking the sights : he doesn't follow the front sight on recoil. he state that he sees them getting back in the picture of the target ,like in peripheral vision. i've also been hit by his statement on jerking the trigger, that you ''must learn to jerk the trigger without upsetting the gun'''' !!! for me it's quite a lot of food for thoughts as i learned to ride the reset smoothly .

watched vogel vids,i guess he use a glock ? however,his gun doesn't look as it recoil much .

i must re-learn my grip completely.

i'm gonna try to hold the gun higher on the frame, the pressure ratio 75%-25% weak-strong hand and the upward-downward push will see the ditch as well ,then will see what happens.

obviously ,i must focus my brain-eyes differently to track the sights better during-after recoil.

i was off.

[alma]

There are a lot great shooting books about there but for discussions like this a really love Brian Enos' book. He will give you some key principles about grip and stance but then sit you on the journey of awareness where you can experiment, observe, and teach yourself what works best for you.

[sigsauerfan]

There are a lot great shooting books about there but for discussions like this a really love Brian Enos' book. He will give you some key principles about grip and stance but then sit you on the journey of awareness where you can experiment, observe, and teach yourself what works best for you.

there's a lot of school of thought on this topic. that's where it may scramble with my mind a little. as you said, i must find which of these advice-techniques may work best for me.

however, a bad grip and stance are still bad habits. i start to think that all this can be ''twisted '' a bit to fit my own ergos, but in a very narrow spectrum.

i must re-start experimenting till i find a natural and effortless way of keeping some consistency through out the stage as whole.

[CHA-LEE]

Keep in mind that in those three example videos, all of those guys are shooting Major Power Factor ammo. So they are not gaining a recoil management advantage by shooting mouse fart ammo. Their supreme recoil and muzzle flip management is achieved with the use of proper hand/grip angles on the gun and gripping the the gun with a lot of pressure. If you have a ton of grip strength you can get away with using a less than optimal hand/grip angle, but if you are doing that you are still at a disadvantage.

If you are having a hard time understanding how much grip pressure you need to use, the next time you go to a USPSA match find a couple of Limited Division GM's or M's and have them shake your hand with the same grip pressure they usually shoot with. You will find that most Limited Division GM's or M's have CRUSHING grip strength when you shake their hands. That is by design, because you need a ton of grip strength to properly manage the recoil and muzzle flip while shooting major power factor ammo in that division.

[sigsauerfan]

Keep in mind that in those three example videos, all of those guys are shooting Major Power Factor ammo. So they are not gaining a recoil management advantage by shooting mouse fart ammo. Their supreme recoil and muzzle flip management is achieved with the use of proper hand/grip angles on the gun and gripping the the gun with a lot of pressure. If you have a ton of grip strength you can get away with using a less than optimal hand/grip angle, but if you are doing that you are still at a disadvantage.

If you are having a hard time understanding how much grip pressure you need to use, the next time you go to a USPSA match find a couple of Limited Division GM's or M's and have them shake your hand with the same grip pressure they usually shoot with. You will find that most Limited Division GM's or M's have CRUSHING grip strength when you shake their hands. That is by design, because you need a ton of grip strength to properly manage the recoil and muzzle flip while shooting major power factor ammo in that division.

OH!

you know, you've exactly pointed about something i've thought the opposite was correct.

i'm a drummer with many years under my belt, so yes, i'm able to apply tirelessly a very strong grip on my gun

however, i thought a strong grip was counter productive . that's probably a part where i'm missing ....i try to not hold the gun too firmly.

the more i read the advices here, i realize i've been taught the wrong techniques.

[grapemeister]

cha-lee is right on with what he's saying about the grip. The first two years in the sport I wasn't convinced and I thought too many folks were putting too much emphasis on gripping the gun hard and not enough emphasis on technique. I was eventually convinced otherwise after a lot of reading, studying video and listening to a lot of top shooters mention the benefits of gripping the gun hard. More importantly, I starting seeing the benefits of gripping the gun hard when I started doing it. It took me a while to make the adjustment and my accuracy really suffered at first, but as I learned to grip hard in combination with a well balanced neutral grip and the right technique, my accuracy improved beyond what was before. There is a video interview of Jerry Miculek somewhere on YouTube in which he says that your forearms should be sore after good practice. Of course, that won't happen with everyone after a practice, but the point he makes about gripping the gun hard is quite clear.

[alma]

Here is a great explanation and example of an aggressive grip/posture.

Edited April 30, 2014 by alma