Brassaholic13 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Well, I've been trying to sell my LNIB Hornady Bullet Collator without much success. Was wanting to do that so I could pick up a Mr. Bullet Collator. I plan on still using the Hornady Bullet Feeder Dies. After contacting Double Alpha, they were willing to sell me the collator assembly for the full Mr. Bullet Feeder price, minus the die assembly, which put it in the $335+ship range, which to me was fair, since I had $275.00 in my Hornady. Since I've been unable to sell the Hornady for under my wholesale cost, it's time to simply invest the $100.00 difference in price into the Hornady to turn it into a Mr. Bullet Feeder. Maybe it'll help someone else turn their Hornady into one. Maybe it will be a failed experiment. Dunno, but I thought you guys might find novelty in following along with the build. I just started this yesterday, Feb 10th, 2014, so I'm not very far into the project, and thoughts are racing through my mind nightly with ideas. Step One Remove the main plate under the plastic collator wheel and center the motor up. I used the screw holes (hardly visible in photo) at noon and 6 o'clock for the x-axis on the vertical mil, then verified that they were on the centerline of the motor, which they are. From there, it was simply a matter of moving all of the holes 1.5" towards the 6 o'clock position and enlarging the center hole to allow the cross pin to fit through it. Step Two Next, I'll need to create the track to grab the tip of the bullet and flip it on its side. Since there are many variables of bullet tips, a removable plate will be used. I'm going to allocate at least 3" of length to get the bullets transitioned onto their side. The "bracketed" shape in magic marker is 3" long, and just under 1/2" wide. The second line below the bracket is a bit longer, and brings the width to over 1/2". Making the "L" shaped cut will allow me to use a band saw, as opposed to a mill. Alternatively, I suppose I could also cut it straight across the bottom line, eliminating the "L" shape. Decisions, decisions. ...to be continued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757reloader Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Is the hornady not fast enough? Or is it just the noise? I made a plexiglass lid for my hornady and it makes it a lot quiter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 Is the hornady not fast enough? Or is it just the noise? I made a plexiglass lid for my hornady and it makes it a lot quiter. Both. It can't keep up with loading at a pace of 750/hr and it never shuts off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) So today I progressed a bit further, getting the removable plate cut, drilled and tapped. The final step to this plate will be finalizing the groove to catch the bullet tips. A bit more research will be required before making the cut. EDIT: After looking/thinking more on the design. I'm going to change the holes in the removable plate to slots for adjustment, and I'll use dykem or moly on the bullets once I have the collator plates made to see where the tips ride. Edited February 12, 2014 by Brassaholic13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 You might find this thread helpfull. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=610350&highlight=bullet+feeder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Thanks. Looks like you mad a hockey puck so that you could rotate it to best flip the bullet. Is the insert caliber specific, or pretty well universal across 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45acp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes, they are somewhat specific to bullet diameter. That is why they can be changed out. That is the same way the KISS feeder and early mrbulletfeeder collators work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrhino Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I made my own KISS style collater. Instead of the "hockey puck" rotating disk for the bullet nose I made the type that is on the new MR. BF. Mine works for everything I've run through it so far with just an in or out adjustment, no inserts. It took a while studying how each bullet style rode across it to where I got it cut properly but I've fed .452 in 230 grn RN down to 200 gn. SWC, 9mm 125 gn RN, 38/357 158 gn. SWC, all without any issues. Those are all cast lead. It also feeds all of the factory jacketed I've tried in those calibers. I was using Hornady feeder dies originally but changed to MR. BF dies because they feed flawlessly for me. I had way too many hangups with the Hornady dies and cast bullets. The MR. BF die has to be able to rise up and down a smidgeon so you can't hard pipe the feed tube. I bought a spring tube off McMaster Carr that works like a champ. I think it was all of $4 for 3 feet of it. So, I've got a Hornady 45 feeder die "dressed" to feed lead, and a brand new unused 9mm drop die that I will most likely be selling. I'm sold on the Mr.BF die. The 9mm die feeds 38 also so no extra die needed. And, it is so easy to adjust I just pop it out of my 9mm head and put in the 38/357 head when needed. Litterally less than a minute adjust it. Raise the ram, adjust it down till it drops a bullet, lower the ram and give another 1/8th turn or so. Snug the lock ring. I have to figure out how to upload pics here. I'll post some pics in this thread if anyone is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 I made my own KISS style collater. Instead of the "hockey puck" rotating disk for the bullet nose I made the type that is on the new MR. BF. Mine works for everything I've run through it so far with just an in or out adjustment, no inserts. It took a while studying how each bullet style rode across it to where I got it cut properly but I've fed .452 in 230 grn RN down to 200 gn. SWC, 9mm 125 gn RN, 38/357 158 gn. SWC, all without any issues. Those are all cast lead. It also feeds all of the factory jacketed I've tried in those calibers. I was using Hornady feeder dies originally but changed to MR. BF dies because they feed flawlessly for me. I had way too many hangups with the Hornady dies and cast bullets. The MR. BF die has to be able to rise up and down a smidgeon so you can't hard pipe the feed tube. I bought a spring tube off McMaster Carr that works like a champ. I think it was all of $4 for 3 feet of it. So, I've got a Hornady 45 feeder die "dressed" to feed lead, and a brand new unused 9mm drop die that I will most likely be selling. I'm sold on the Mr.BF die. The 9mm die feeds 38 also so no extra die needed. And, it is so easy to adjust I just pop it out of my 9mm head and put in the 38/357 head when needed. Litterally less than a minute adjust it. Raise the ram, adjust it down till it drops a bullet, lower the ram and give another 1/8th turn or so. Snug the lock ring. I have to figure out how to upload pics here. I'll post some pics in this thread if anyone is interested. Feel free to start a new thread with your KISS style feeder. I made this thread to document a step by step on how I converted my Hornady in case someone else wanted to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 Progress! A buddy of mine has a 50w laser, which he uses for making model airplane kits. This laser will also cut up to 1/4" thick acrylic. So I ordered up a 24x24 inch sheet of 1/4" acrylic from Amazon and had it shipped to him. The Hornady collator wheel was precisely 9-3/16" OD, and from there, he and I created the following design. The plates will be bolted together via the 3 holes. The slots are 1/8" by 3/4", to put turbulators on the wheel. This will keep the bullets from simply sliding along the acrylic. He's going to ship them Monday... I can't wait. And here's a close up of the laser cut. He said he could make a nicer finish, but the cutting time would increase by a factor of 2-3. In looking at the close up, I don't think it'll be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 They will be fine. On mine I made jigs for the spacing and just drilled the holes, at that point I saw cut and sanded some and others milled the slot. In any case, it's not that critical as long as the bullet will fit in and fall out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 We cut the 45ACP plate to 0.480" (about 1/32" clearance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) That should work. What speed did the Hornady feeder operate at that didn't collate enough bullets for only 750 an hour? RPM that is, and how many slots in the wheel? Edited February 23, 2014 by jmorris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhill Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Any more progress reports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Sure. The laser cutting came out fantastic. I finally got time to sit down and do some more Dremel work on the plastic tube from Hornady. Man, they used some THICK plastic. Without measuring, I bet it's every bit of 1/4" thick. I now need to get back over to the machine shop and TIG weld a small chunk of aluminum in to fill that dirt hole at the bottom of the aluminum plate, then final machine the sliding plate at the top for the first part of the flip. From there, it'll just be a bit more Dremel work to cut the second part of the flip, and then drill the drop hole and make the bracket to hold the Hornady drop tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) More progress today. I'm thrilled! Filled in the hole at 6 O'clock on the aluminum so bullets wouldn't jam in it. Simply TIG welded in a small piece of 3/16" aluminum flush with the top of the motor plate. Then machined the adjustable ramp up top with a 3/8" ball mill. Here's the results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-dAuOX8jM8 Now, for the final step, I need to make the bullet outlet, along with the drop tube. Eventually, I'll add in a switch to turn off the feeder like the Dillon case feeder does. I plan on using the Hornady factory bracket, and simply making a adapter out of a small chunk of aluminum to bolt it to the bottom of the bucket. ** EDIT: Actually, it'll bolt to the aluminum motor plate through the bucket, not to the bucket itself) ** Edited March 7, 2014 by Brassaholic13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 Well today the drop tube hole was milled, and surrounding plastic Dremeled. Everything works great by hand, but there's a huge snag in the fabric of engineering when motorized. The motor is now simply too fast to allow the bullets to properly drop. They drop about half way and jam in the drop tube. So, I have three choices, as I see it. 1. Slow down the motor via rheostat. 2. Make the drop tube hole diameter larger (not practical) 3. Make the slots in the collator wheel wider. I'm going to try the rheostat using a variac a friend has, most likely tomorrow. As efficient as this design is, slowing the speed down won't be an issue. If that doesn't work, I'll have another collator wheel lasered out, and instead of 1/32" of an inch of side clearance, it'll have 1/8". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 What RPM is the motor you are using and how many slots did you wind up with in the wheel? Why can't you make the mouth of the drop tube a larger ID? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD1 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Very nice. Keep updating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) 30 slots. You can see it in action prior to the drop tube in the youtube link above. Watched the video and looking at the turbulator, it takes ~12 seconds for a full revolution. So that would be 5 rpm if my math is correct. I'm using the plastic spring tube adapters and aluminum bracket that came from Hornady. I suppose I could make a different drop tube, but that'd be a last resort. If I can slow it down, or make the slot width wider, those would be simpler solutions. Edited March 9, 2014 by Brassaholic13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 Well, it's a no-go with the variac. Reducing the line voltage down to 40% gives me an adequate speed, however more than 6-8 bullets and there's too much load. 50% voltage works when the feeder is full, but when load is removed, it's back up to full speed in no time. So, in thinking about it some more, rather than opening up the clearances in the plates, or the drop tube, I'm going to find another motor with the same bolt pattern/shaft size that will be the appropriate RPM, which is ~1 RPM. 1 RPM should give me a feed rate with 30 slots of about 1500 bullets per hour, which will be more than adequate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 As you have found out, shaded pole AC motors don't respond well to reduced voltage. I use dc motors in mine (Dayton 2l006) that is 4.5 rpm @ 12 volts. I feed them 3-12 volts, depending changing uppers they are feeding, changing the speed they operate at. The floor that the bullets ride around on also drops down after the flipper, reducing how far the bullets have to drop to clear the feed plate. This along with a lead in into the drop tube keep them from jamming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) Ok, so I got to looking at it a little more, running the variac, and even with only 4 bullets in the hopper, running the motor as slowly as it will go (power range is only 4-5 on the vairac between not running and full power), it still jams up. So, it seems that the issue is NOT the RPM, but more to do with alignment. I noticed that the plastic tube at the top of the spring was not perfectly square with the motor plate. So, as I'm running the collator with 4 bullets in it, I push against the plastic drop tube to make it as close to perpendicular as I can. The bullets then start dropping with no issue at min speed, and only a slight catch at full speed. I think I screwed up when I made the cut out for the drop hole with a 5/8" mill. Since the plastic drop tube isn't flush with the top of the motor plate, there's a ledge, which if not perfectly flush with the motor plate, causes the bullets to hang up. I think I can fix it and make it work at the fastest speed, by making a new adapter from the motor plate to the plastic caliber specific drop tube. It would be simply taking a piece of 7/8" or 1" round stock and drilling a 1/2" through hole. From there, on the bottom, drill a 5/8" diameter hole by 1/2" deep. On the top, use a 5/8" tapered reamer to transition from the 5/8" motor plate hole down to the 1/2" through hole. The overall length of the part is insignificant. If I wanted to, I could even make the motor plate hole larger, maybe 3/4"? and use a 3/4" tapered reamer down to 1/2". *EDIT* Just removed the plastic dropper tube assembly and ran it wide open on speed. No issues at all with it dropping bullets. So, I just need a full 5/8" hole to drop them into. The plastic dropper tube insert is 5/8" OD, but only 1/2" ID, so that is what's causing the issue. *END EDIT* Edited March 9, 2014 by Brassaholic13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassaholic13 Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 Thinking something like this should work. Tig this to the bottom of the motor plate, and tig the Hornady factory plastic drop tube holder to the bottom of the pictured part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 That should work. You can taper the hole as large as you want as long as the tip of the bullet cannot pass the base and you will be fine. Mine are tapered but also have a more slot type lead in as shown in the photo above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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