Onepocket Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Would it be legal to shoot a glock 34 with a 17L barrel in limited minor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 No. The rules state: App D3 Limited under authorized modifications Replacement barrels must be of same length as factory standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Yes, legal, under the handgun rules approved in 2011 (Link is found in the USPSA Rules section). This has been allowed since Jan 1, 2013. This change will be included in the new rule book coming out February, 2014. But it has been the rule for a full year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 And yet another reason to publish the fing rules where we can all have easy, prompt access! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 See, when I read that in the rules section it says Special condition: See exceptions above. So, is that saying there are no special conditions? If so, why in the hell doesn't it just say there are no special conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 No. The rules state: App D3 Limited under authorized modifications Replacement barrels must be of same length as factory standard He's asking about LIMITED, your answer quotes App. D3 - LIMITED 10...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 The PDF I'm looking at says LIMITED The L10 page is below it and they both say the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 http://www.uspsa.org/document_library/Handgun%20Rule%20Updates%20of%202011.pdf This is all I found. Is there something else somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHLChris Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 There is only one difference between L-10 and Limited and that is # of rounds in the magazine when the buzzer sounds. Everything else is exactly the same. Am I wrong on that? My reading is that a replacement barrel must be the same length as stock. FWIW: In Production it reads that a replacement barrel must also be in the same caliber as stock. That means in L-10 and Limited you can use a 40-9 conversion barrel of the same length as stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 There is only one difference between L-10 and Limited and that is # of rounds in the magazine when the buzzer sounds. Everything else is exactly the same. Am I wrong on that? My reading is that a replacement barrel must be the same length as stock. FWIW: In Production it reads that a replacement barrel must also be in the same caliber as stock. That means in L-10 and Limited you can use a 40-9 conversion barrel of the same length as stock. Read the link Sarge just posted. Barrel length is no longer a restriction. And hasn't been for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 Legal???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Legal???? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHLChris Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 (edited) The addendum listed by Sarge says nothing about barrel length, barrel type, barrel restrictions at all. The changes are in red and relate to things other than barrel. What am I missing, Chuck? I totally accept your statement that they are now legal, but I don't see it written. Since there is no longer any mention of "Authorized Modifications" does that now mean that no modification is disallowed? Everything is fair game? Thus, anything could be altered on the gun, including external weights and thumb rests? If the barrel restrictions are thrown out by the new rules based on the Authorized Modifications" not being included, then the "Prohibited Modifications" have been likewise removed. Am I reading this wrong, Chuck? Edited January 1, 2014 by CHLChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Chris, It is a mess. But for me the best way to look at it is like this. If you look at the file I posted and ignore the wording in the special conditions box it looks just like the rules for Open division in the actual rule book. There are no special conditions, no allowed modifications listed and no disallowed modifications listed. Same as Open. I have been looking at that PDF all year and thought it only made the changes listed in the red ink. I had no idea all the other stuff was deleted. I think it's a crying shame that a guy can't play the game by the rule book without having to have a list of NROI rulings, Board meeting minutes, and whatever other scribblings are needed to stay up to date. If I were king for a day I would not make any changes until it was determined we needed a new rule book. Then I would publish the rule book and have it up to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Chris, It is a mess. But for me the best way to look at it is like this. If you look at the file I posted and ignore the wording in the special conditions box it looks just like the rules for Open division in the actual rule book. There are no special conditions, no allowed modifications listed and no disallowed modifications listed. Same as Open. I have been looking at that PDF all year and thought it only made the changes listed in the red ink. I had no idea all the other stuff was deleted. I think it's a crying shame that a guy can't play the game by the rule book without having to have a list of NROI rulings, Board meeting minutes, and whatever other scribblings are needed to stay up to date. If I were king for a day I would not make any changes until it was determined we needed a new rule book. Then I would publish the rule book and have it up to date. If you think it is the same as Open, you probably need to go back and review the Open rules. Here are some examples of differences: Minimum caliber for Major Maximum Magazine length, Optics Comps Barrel Ports You know, the stuff that makes an open gun an open gun. I'm really shocked you didn't know about the other changes since they have been discussed at length on this forum, in particular the stuff about thumbrests. I know you keep current on the rules so... In theory it's a great idea to only change the rules every few years when a new rule book comes out. In practice technology, equipment and shooters knowledge base is changing so quickly that it's not practical to wait 2 years, or sometimes even 2 months before changing a rule. If something is currently allowed because it's never been considered and it's such a dramatic game changer that something needs to put into place I don't want to wait until two years of people have purchased it, then tell them it's not legal. Chris, in answer to your question, yes, the prohibitions from the previous rules have been removed. The big one that came out was the 500 units produced which was never clearly defined or enforced. (At least in my mind) Once that was removed it was very difficult to say what is "Factory" anymore. If I build my Glock 17L/34 and say I have a manufacturers license, who can really say that's not a factory configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I don't mean the open and limited rules are the same. I mean there are not notes at all under the list such as allowed, disallowed, special conditions. See how hard it is to make a comment understood regarding rules. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.roberts Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Didn't Amidon publish something in Front Sight stating that Limited was basically "no dots, no comps" now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I don't mean the open and limited rules are the same. I mean there are not notes at all under the list such as allowed, disallowed, special conditions. See how hard it is to make a comment understood regarding rules. lol That's because we specifically didn't want to try writing out a list of what approved modifications are. The stuff that's disallowed is spelled out in the table. The same as just about all the other divisions. There are no special GOTCHA clauses in Limited anymore. Basically, if it is at least 9mm x 19mm, the mags aren't too long and you don't have a comp, ports or an optic it's a limited gun. I guess I'm not seeing what isn't clear about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Didn't Amidon publish something in Front Sight stating that Limited was basically "no dots, no comps" now? Yes, and it's been covered repeatedly on this forum for the last two plus years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Note to BOD. When rules are changed, post the corrected page in PDF. We can download the page and change our rule books. Many of us follow the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Recently I saw a 2011 limited gun with an extended barrel with basically weight on the end of the barrel, with the front sights on that. It was kinda like a heavy comp with out the porting. SJC sells a weight that slides on the rail under the gun so that's legal for limited also? It should be interesting to see what people come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Didn't Amidon publish something in Front Sight stating that Limited was basically "no dots, no comps" now?Yes, and it's been covered repeatedly on this forum for the last two plus years.as much as I love these forums they are by no means an official outlet. We need an updated rule book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErichF Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 There is absolutely no reason on God's Green Earth that the official rule book PDF on the National Website cannot have a list of changes in it that are updated in real time. I do not look at Front Sight as a place for rule changes, since it is not any more appropriate as a rules outlet than this forum. It's an organizational newsletter required by law for tax-exempt status. It just happens to be good reading too :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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