kcobean Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I know that all Caspian frames are essentially built around the .38 super round. After much research, I believe this causes a serious issue for people wanting to run .40S&W for Limited Major on a Caspian frame. The issue is that the Caspain .40 magazines are too narrow to accomodate a "perfect double stack" of .40 rounds where each round touches the one directly above it. Because the magazine inner dimension is thinner than the round stack, this causes two problems: The first is that instead of the pressure from the magazine spring exerting pressure directly upward through the stack, the pressure gets exerted outward against the magazine walls as the stack tries to fully compress. Second, because there is no room for the bases of the rounds to "spread out" due to being slightly larger in diameter than the mouth, above 14 or 15 rounds, a large gap develops between the case mouths and it gets bigger with each successive round. The top round in the mag sits against the feed lips but the round below it will sit effectively in line with the bore axis. This causes the rim of the top round to hook into the extractor groove of the round below it. When the slide comes forward, because the top round is "hung" on the round below it, the top round rotates downward and nose-dives into either the front magazine wall, or into the feed ramp, stopping the gun. Even using a Lee .001 undersized die to try and fully eliminate the wider base will not fully eliminate it, I've tried. I got a mag tuning guide from a very nice guy on the Caspian facebook group that advised putting the mags in a vice and squeezing them front to back to "bulge" the sides of the magazine to make it wider to overcome the aforementioned problems. I checked the internal dimensions of both STI mags and XDm mags, and both are considerably wider and both run my reloads with no problems. I'm curious if anyone knows why Caspian doesn't fix this issue. I have heard from several people now that have had to do this to their mags to get their Caspian to run. I love the gun and the way it fits my hand, but this magazine flaw will pretty much prevent me from buying a Caspian-framed gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titandriver Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I got that same "mag tuning, squeeze 'em in a vice" advice from Gary Smith himself. Can't figure out why they won't take their own advice and fix the problem themselves before sending the mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Hmmmm....Sounds like a case of the the Dreaded Second Round Gap (a.k.a. DSRG), which usually results in nose dives. I don't run .40, but do run .38 and resolved the DSRG by increasing the depth of the funneling indents to get the rounds to stack up better along with a few other tweaks including using a Grams spring/follower. I think the same concept could be applied to a .40. Using MecGar MGWIT40LFAFC mags might be worth considering. The Tanfo limited guys seem to be running .40 in thier guns pretty sucessfully and one can easily modify a Tanfo large frame mag to fit a Caspian wide body. You have to profile the top of the mag to fit the caspian, but it is easy to do with a dremel. You can also squeeze in the funneling indents .020-.050" or so to help with round stacking to eliminate the DSRG, again easy to do wth the MecGar mags. The Caspian quick change base pad fits the MecGar mags perfectly, and fits the EGW magwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcobean Posted December 3, 2013 Author Share Posted December 3, 2013 Yeah, I know that the EAA mags will work in the 38/9mm gun (my son shoots an Aluminum framed Caspian gun that started life as a .38SA and is now 9mm.) I know that tuning is a part of life with any "race gun", I just hesitate to get into playing these "deform the magazine" games to overcome what I would consider to be a design defect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogiebb Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I have a few friends that run Caspian framed guns both old generation and new .. they all had to tune the mags like we STI/SV shooters as well to get optimal performance.. that saying im selling a Caspian Gun in the classifieds the guy who built this gun (Cameron Custom) has been shooting Caspians as well and i have yet to see him have any jams or problems maybe he is using EAA mags as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcobean Posted December 3, 2013 Author Share Posted December 3, 2013 Ogiebb, your gun in the classifieds is actually what prompted me to post here. I'm going to be shopping for a new Limited gun to replace my XDm here in a few months and like I said in my first post, I *love* the way the Caspian fits my hand, but after borrowing a buddies Caspian .40 and having it ruin something like 6 straight matches while I tried to get it to run right (and it not being my gun I wasn't about to "squeeze" the magazines), I'm very gun-shy (pardon the pun) of Caspian framed guns right now. I changed my COAL, my crimp, changed resizing dies to an undersized die, and I couldn't make it run right. I certainly won't feel like I am "settling" if I buy an STI because they are awesome guns, but they don't fit my hand like a Caspian does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogiebb Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 (edited) Ogiebb, your gun in the classifieds is actually what prompted me to post here. I'm going to be shopping for a new Limited gun to replace my XDm here in a few months and like I said in my first post, I *love* the way the Caspian fits my hand, but after borrowing a buddies Caspian .40 and having it ruin something like 6 straight matches while I tried to get it to run right (and it not being my gun I wasn't about to "squeeze" the magazines), I'm very gun-shy (pardon the pun) of Caspian framed guns right now. I changed my COAL, my crimp, changed resizing dies to an undersized die, and I couldn't make it run right. I certainly won't feel like I am "settling" if I buy an STI because they are awesome guns, but they don't fit my hand like a Caspian does. I would talk to Tony Luciani from Cameron he's been shooting a Caspian for a few years now and ive always seen his run flawless not all named pistol smiths out there are familiar with the design.. ive seen one have so much problems the owner actually threw the gun on the berm (fastest DQ) ive seen... Not trying to defend my sale in the classifieds if it sells great, if not it will be fine w/ my other blasters in my safe..only reason im selling my Caspian is im not set up for it and i need cash thats why im selling more than just the Caspian... to run the gun i would need a new set up like more mags ,holster and etc.. i do admit the gun feels so nice in my hand.. Travis Tomasie before switching to Para had great luck w/ it and his was flawless as well not sure if he was shooting a Caspian when he won the World Shoot and the Nationals. Edited December 3, 2013 by ogiebb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titandriver Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 (edited) Never could get my DW Mayhem Elite to run 100% with 20 rounds in the mags. K10's or Caspians, Grams guts or stock, Hennings pads or stock, made no difference. Now if you stayed at 17 or fewer it would work just fine. If I put 17 or 18 rounds in the Caspian mags I'd have to pound it in with a rubber mallet due to the swelling near the top. Wouldn't drop free either. The K10's were marginally better but after about 7000 rounds I gave up on it. Shame to cuz I really loved the way they feel and shoot. If 20 round mags that fit and work 100% ever come to market I'll go back to it; otherwise it'll just sit in the safe unless someone wants to buy it from me! Should add, if anyone would be willing to massage the frame to accept SVI/STI mags, it would be a definite keeper! Unfortunately there are only a couple of guys who do that modification and they will only do it on a new build. Edited December 3, 2013 by titandriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvhendrix Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 (edited) I have 15 of the Caspian .40 mags. I too was ready to ditch the project, even though I love the guns. I was frustrated with the performance of the magazines. Since they were modified using Chris Nuss' tutorial, they each hold 20 rnds reloadable. I've ran them all in 2 different Caspian Limited guns in about 5 separate matches with each gun and they have yet to fail. I start with 21 and reload to 20 over and over they have been used and hit the ground. Flawless! I must say I only shoot factory .40 ammo. Edited December 3, 2013 by pvhendrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 .... Since they were modified using Chris Nuss' tutorial.... Being a Caspian user I would be interested to read the tutorial as I am always interested in what others are doing to tweak their mags. Is there a link you could post or PM me? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvhendrix Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 .... Since they were modified using Chris Nuss' tutorial.... Being a Caspian user I would be interested to read the tutorial as I am always interested in what others are doing to tweak their mags. Is there a link you could post or PM me? Thanks. PM sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcobean Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share Posted December 4, 2013 (edited) Thanks PV...I saw your post on the Caspian FB page. And for anyone else that might need it, here's the link that Chris posted on the Caspian Facebook page for all to see: https://word.office.live.com/wv/WordView.aspx?FBsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fdownload%2Ffile_preview.php%3Fid%3D229945190442208%26time%3D1378489786%26metadata&access_token=637976096%3AAVIvqlzANKqoiz-MVFL9U7g-cWhdD4hIqQke-ZBsSCWa7w&title=Caspian+40+magazine+fix.docx Edited December 4, 2013 by kcobean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trp Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I would like to read that as well any way of getting a link that works on an ipad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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