Coating Parts In Production Clarification

[sqidd]

Hey all, new poster.

I was shown the way over here for rules clarification. I'm new to USPSA shooting (4 matches so far), not new to shooting. I have been shooting production using a M&P9 PRO...not very impressively. But despite my less than impressive shooting I will not be prevented from one of my favorite past times, tricking stuff out. I can't leave anything alone. Good thing I am shooting production, if I was shooting Open things would get way out of hand/expensive.

Before I get into this, yes I know it is most likely a waste of time, not worth the trouble, etc. I don't care, I like tricking stuff out for the pure enjoyment of it.

Here is what I want to do. Through my business I have a good (cheap) connection for getting things coated. In this case titanium nitriding and DLC coating (Diamond Like Coating). I'm picking up a second M&P9 and I want to nitride all the guts and DLC coat the slide. Unless someone argues that there is a performance advantage (unlikely) I don't see where doing this would run afoul of the rules. The only advantage I see is that the parts will last longer...and look cool. Thoughts on it and its legality?

I was going to include the relevant Production rules but for some reason I can't paste stuff into the thread (anyone else have this issue?).

Thanks a lot!

Jason

[Sarge]

21.2a Slide - refinishing

Per existing NROI ruling, cosmetically enhancing the

finish of a slide is already ALLOWED in Production

Division, provided that the finish provides no competitive

advantage.

This clause is NOW interpreted to specifically

ALLOW refinishing the frame, as well as the slide,

subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic

only, no competitive advantage).

Special Notes/Clarifications:

• Any finish which provides a noncosmetic function

will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun

finish which provides a roughened texture in an area

where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a

PROHIBITED modification.

21.5 Exchange of minor

INTERNAL components

(strikers, sears, springs,

connectors/disconnectors,

and other wholly-internal

parts)

INTERNAL parts: This clause is NOW interpreted

to mean that a broad range of INTERNAL parts may

be modified or replaced – either with OEM or aftermarket

parts.

Special Notes/Clarifications:

• Strikers, sears, springs, connectors/disconnectors,

and any other part which is NOT visible when the

gun is in battery is considered an INTERNAL part

and may be modified or replaced unless otherwise

prohibited in these provisions (see section 22 for specific

prohibitions).

• Guide rods are considered an “internal part” and

may be modified and/or replaced with OEM or aftermarket

guide rods even though part of the guide rod

is externally visible when the gun is in battery. Note

that the weight limits in D4-18 remain in force and

relevant.

• Any finish which provides a noncosmetic function

will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun

finish which provides a roughened texture in an area

where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a

PROHIBITED modification.

Sounds like you are good to go according to the rules. Just keep in mind that Production Division has a "catch all" rule that states:

UNLESS a modification is SPECIFICALLY authorized in the rules or

SPECIFICALLY authorized in an official, published NROI interpretation, it

is considered a PROHIBITED MODIFICATION.

You should always try to get clarification from NROI if you want to do something questionable.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Sarge

[sqidd]

That's how I looked at it, thanks for the backup.

How do I get clarification from NROI (and what does NROI stand for?)?

Thanks!

[sqidd]

And how did you paste that text in? I'm guessing you didn't type all of that???

For some reason I can't paste on this forum (never had that happen before).

Thanks

[Sarge]

Lately I have been having problems copying and pasting lots of stuff. Don't know that much about computers to be honest. So I saved the rule book to my desk top, I guess it's a PDF. I just open it up and copy paste from it to here.

I know new members have issues posting pictures so maybe it carries over to copy paste as well?

NROI:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uspsa.org%2Fnroi-uspsa.php&ei=gS2WUsf3FMutsASnzYGYAQ&usg=AFQjCNGu7IiU4I_jbl11QD9pAa7OJOWh7Q&sig2=ug22L21O0c0Ct-psU_n4Kg&bvm=bv.57155469,d.cWc

The Director(DNROI) is John Amidon. You can reach him through the USPSA website. You can email him directly with a question and he will answer you. If he says, "yes, you can make that modification to your gun", keep that email in your range bag. When an RO tells you the gun is not legal you can whip out the email.

[Chuck Anderson]

National Range Officer Institute. John Amidon is the Director. His email is dnroi@uspsa.org.

I believe the ability to cut and paste to the forum is restricted for new members as a spam control feature. It goes away after a set number of posts. (I think)

[sqidd]

Email sent, thanks for the contact info.

The post count/pasting thing makes sense. We'll see what happens once I get more posts.

Thanks again guys!

[Ken_Bird]

I am like you. Like the cool look even if it does not score an Alpha.

[Skydiver]

As noted towards the end of the magwell for single stack/classic division thread, somebody noticed that one type of finish on the magwell is thicker than another finish of the same magwell from the same manufacturer.

So if re-finishing a gun tightens up its tolerances, isn't the side effect of a cosmetic change a non-cosmetic function?

(The common wisdom seems to be that the tighter the slide/frame fit, the better the gun is. Or at least it's one of the things you check when buying a used gun -- so there must be some competitive advantage to having a tighter fit vs. a looser fit.)

Anyway, like you, I can't leave well enough alone, and I tinker with my guns as well. It's why I moved from Production to L-10. I like the challenge of shooting with just 10 round mags, but I also want the freedom to tinker with my gun.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Skydiver

[sqidd]

Wow! That CORE is trick!

Edited November 28, 2013 by sqidd

[sqidd]

The cool thing about Ti nitriding is that it's only 2-3 microns thick.

Good heads up on the coating having a potential performance advantage.

[sqidd]

John emailed me back. Ha says no problem with coatings as long as they don't weigh over 2oz. Not a problem.

[whitedog]

Would you be in Ohio by any chance?

[sqidd]

Nope, Michigan. But only about 35mi from Ohio.

[whitedog]

Oh. Just thought I might be able to help with the coating. I know a coating place also.

[Maxximuss]

I just want to confirm, the PVD coatings are allowed in Production? My wife's G34 is coated in TiCN (slide and barrel). She is shooting Production Nationals in Illinois this summer and I'd hate for it not to be correct.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

I just want to confirm, the PVD coatings are allowed in Production? My wife's G34 is coated in TiCN (slide and barrel). She is shooting Production Nationals in Illinois this summer and I'd hate for it not to be correct.

D4 21.2a

Slide – refinishing

Per existing NROI ruling, cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide is already ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no com-petitive advantage.

This clause is NOW interpreted to specifically ALLOW refinishing the frame, as well as the slide, subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cos-metic only, no competitive advantage).

Special Notes/Clarifications:

• Any finish which provides a non-cosmetic function will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun finish which provides a roughened texture in an area where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a PROHIBITED modification.

[Maxximuss]

I just want to confirm, the PVD coatings are allowed in Production? My wife's G34 is coated in TiCN (slide and barrel). She is shooting Production Nationals in Illinois this summer and I'd hate for it not to be correct.

D4 21.2a

Slide – refinishing

Per existing NROI ruling, cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide is already ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no com-petitive advantage.

This clause is NOW interpreted to specifically ALLOW refinishing the frame, as well as the slide, subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cos-metic only, no competitive advantage).

Special Notes/Clarifications:

• Any finish which provides a non-cosmetic function will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun finish which provides a roughened texture in an area where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a PROHIBITED modification.

I have studied the rules, but where the debate lies is "no competitive advantage". I will play the devil's advocate here (because I obviously want it to be legal). DLC and Nitride coatings have a higher lubricity (less friction) which equates to faster cycle time (potentially). Now, whether that is measurable is another matter. The other advantages such as less wear on moving parts, easier cleaning, and aesthetics are obviously not competitively advantageous.

[EkuJustice]

Your fine. The competitive advantage is If you applied say truck bed liner or something else with grit to the slide.