trigger shoe options

[singleshotcajun]

I love my Witness pistols but I have huge fingers. The radius on the Witness triggers are way too small for me to shoot double action comfortably. In single action I do not notice the small baby size infinitesimal radius as much;). Short of replacing the trigger with a Tanfo match trigger or a Henning and having only single action are there any options. Might make a shoe or even try to re contour the factory trigger. Thoughts ?

The radius of the trigger on my Armalite AR 24 CZ clone is just a little bigger it seems, big enough to make it feel much better.

Edited August 28, 2013 by singleshotcajun

[kneelingatlas]

I have the same issue with recurve triggers, the CZ97B trigger is the solution. CZ uses smaller pins so the holes need to be drilled out, but it's perfect for a longer reach with less curve.

[kneelingatlas]

Here are some pictures:

Shadow before:

Shadow after:

[kneelingatlas]

With over travel screw:

http://czcustom.com/CZ85Combattrigger.aspx

or without:

http://shop.cz-usa.com/P-0460011301/Trigger-Cz-97.aspx

[singleshotcajun]

Thanks much,that is a good option.

[Nealio]

Good thread !

[singleshotcajun]

I removed the trigger and re profiled it.Ground off the notch on the top and made the radius a little bigger.Now, it is not bad at all in single action,double still sucks.

I priced triggers yesterday and wow EAA sure is proud of theirs. I have a Tanfoglio Bullseye and love that trigger,thought I might put one in my plain Jane Witness but it is almost as much as a Henning flat trigger. I wish the CZ sport trigger could be made to work in the Witness.

Removing and re installing the trigger was a good learning experience.Took advice from a Friend and made a slave pin for the trigger return spring out of a penetrating oil straw,that worked. Oddly enough I had more trouble with what I thought would be the easy part, installing the sear block is what gave me fits.

So options

CZ trigger and drill out holes

Learn to live with the trigger

Install a EAA match or Henning flat trigger

If I install either the match or Henning trigger to my Large frame standard Witness 45 is that all I need to do to make in single action only ?

Edited October 4, 2013 by singleshotcajun

[kneelingatlas]

Simply putting a SAO trigger will make your DA/SA Witness SAO because the trigger will limit the forward travel to the point that the DA can't reset. I also remove the disconnector for the hell of it (since it's not doing anything, why have it dragging along?).

As far as SAO triggers go, the plastic CZ Tactical Sport trigger is $9 from CZ and works great; if your anti-plastic, CZC has an aluminum version for $30 and a cool flat one for $40. If you like the one on your bullseye, I have one I'll sell you for $40 shipped as well.

With regards to the Henning trigger, some people love it, but its dead straight and has square edges were I prefer more contour; I sold mine.

Edited October 4, 2013 by kneelingatlas

[singleshotcajun]

Since I am buying a EAA match trigger from John and need not fear screwing up my trigger this gave me the confidence I needed to try some more work to the factory trigger . I took out the trigger and heated it and beat it to a 1.125" piece of round stock clamped in a vise,this opened the radius quite a bit . Reassembled and the trigger limited out on the frame before releasing the sear, strike one. Heated it again and pulled the curve back in a little and upon reassembly it worked in single action but not double. At this point I decided to Dremel out frame a little as not much was needed, very minimal. I did polish all the mating surfaces of the trigger mechanism and all over the trigger bar.On a side note G96 cream cold bluing sure is some magical stuff and it closely blends with the black finish on the Witness.

I am fairly tickled with the trigger now. Since I've already started down the road of voiding the warranty when I get home today I will de horn the pistol in particular the front of the frame and those sharp points on the rail. I’ll have the trigger from John in case I ever want to install it on this gun or another. Will post some photos when I'm "done".

Edited October 7, 2013 by singleshotcajun

[kneelingatlas]

That's great to hear! I broke a Tanfo trigger trying to bend it, but I never thought to heat it. Live and learn.

[singleshotcajun]

_{Really happy with the trigger now. I bought this one along with a few others at the same time and did not pay this one much attention until recently.It was a combo .22LR and 45 ACP. I cannot believe I did not notice all the sharp edges right away.I only shot it once last fall with the 45 upper and a few more times with the .22 upper. Got it mostly de horned last night,even the leading edges of the slide were very sharp. I wonder if the factory just missed this one and blued it before buffing out the edges.I'm going to try to go and shoot this evening.}

_{http://s84.photobucket.com/user/cajuncj/library/EAA%20Witness%2045#/user/cajuncj/library/EAA%20Witness%2045?sort=3&page=1&_suid=13812426204370369459076317258}

Edited October 8, 2013 by singleshotcajun

[prk]

nice job de-horning , unless you specifically want or need da/sa -- once you put sao trigger in you will be spoiled. Was that a factory 45/22 gun? I have a 22 upper that runs only with the black follower mags , the red follower 22lr mags suck or I haven't been able to tune it right yet

[singleshotcajun]

Thanks.It came from EAA with both uppers. My factory .22 magazine has a red follower as does my spare purchased separately. Both mags run well.Of course only high velocity .22LR will cycle reliably, mostly CCI MIni Mag which is scarce as hen's teeth these days.I may eventually install the match SA trigger but I tell after doing some rubbing on this trigger I am very happy with the trigger. It will never be as nice as the trigger in my Bullseye pistol but for what it is it is nice,especially firing SA.

[Nealio]

nice job de-horning , unless you specifically want or need da/sa -- once you put sao trigger in you will be spoiled. Was that a factory 45/22 gun? I have a 22 upper that runs only with the black follower mags , the red follower 22lr mags suck or I haven't been able to tune it right yet

I had to take a bit off the top of the red follower mags to get them to quit dragging on the slide when I ran my conversion in my Limited.

1/2 of them also needed the height on the ejector nub taken down a tiny bit. Now my 22 conversion runs like mad on my Limited frame with Gemtech 42gr subsonics...

[singleshotcajun]

Just got back from shooting. 45 upper=flawless ,230 grain ball Bitterroot Valley reloads and .230 grain Federal Hydro shock. Shoots real nice POA=POI @ 10 yards.I may have had too much lube on the frame for the .22 upper to act right. CCI MM no issues as usual,Aguila HV Copper plated 1 in 10 jammed,Aguila standard velocity 3 in 10 jammed as expected. The big surprise was Centurion by Aguila 40 gr lead nose(I found a couple of hundred of this junk in my stash) did on average as good as the Aguila 40 HV copper plated.Back in the ammo scare of 2009 I bought a bunch of the Centurion priced way too high and it shot like crap in my Smallbore Match rifles. The Centurion is very inconsistent but loaded fairly hot.I think the Witness will make a fine car/truck gun starting now. I've been thinking about using this one for a commute carry gun and that is why I leaned toward leaving the double action option.

[singleshotcajun]

It would be nice if the slide would hold open when it runs dry while shooting .22.I dug up the box the set came in just to see if it came with the weaker slide stop spring as many have told me the combo should have come with it. Alas my combo did not come with a weaker slide stop spring,I did look under the foam, not there.Fortunately I can count to ten and since I will sometimes use it with the 45 upper as a "Car/Truck" gun I don't think I want any weak springs in it. I may eventually try to find a frame and install a weaker hammer spring and slide stop spring,install the .22 upper in an attempt to have a dedicated and reliable .22 LR Witness Large frame pistol.

[singleshotcajun]

I could no longer resist messing with the S/A trigger, installed today. Years ago I carried both 1911 and Tokarev pistols and the habits attained in doing so are still there and I know that in a ‘Tight” I would thumb back the hammer anyway so what the heck, install that match trigger.

The trigger bar pin got a little mangled while removing it but the interrupter pin is the same pin and since it would not be used in the swap that worked out well. Going back with the match trigger in particular installing the trigger return spring proved challenging. I got my Bullseye pistol out and eyeballed the trigger, trigger return spring and trigger bar configuration and it is very different from a stock D/A. You have to create clearance for the spring leg inside the trigger by grinding the link of the trigger bar at an angle and grinding a slot for the spring leg inside the channel of the trigger. There was a groove in the trigger for the spring leg but it needed enlarging for my set up. “Match” pistol trigger bars are already done this way. After some grinding and rubbing the spring would go but fit much tighter so instead of a piece of aerosol can straw I used a piece wooden stem from a medical cotton swap for a slave pin and that is what I will use from now on, it works great. After fitting the slave pin I installed the over travel screw and that lined up the tail of the spring in the slot and straitened the whole setup. I don’t regret the time spent altering the factory trigger, just my normal learning exercise with an unfamiliar firearm and worth the time it took. I like this trigger much better as we all knew I would. Without more modifications this trigger will never be the Bullseye trigger but it is much improved and I would not want it any lighter or have a shorter pull for “social” work. Thanks much to everyone who helped with parts and advice.

Edited October 14, 2013 by singleshotcajun