Revolver Failure Question

[SAW45]

Hello, My friend experienced a failure in his S&W329PD. Firing Winchester Factory 240gr. 44mag rounds, after firing a round, the gun would end with the hammer fully back, and the cylinder with the case from the just fired round still in position with the barrel. This happened perhaps 3 times out of 75 rounds fired. We've fired this lightweight scandium/titanium revolver before about 300 times with no previous problems. Any ideas people?

Thanks!

Peter

[JohnRodriguez]

The 329PD is a very light gun, and if you are not holding the gun tight enough that is exactly what happend. If is was a semi auto you would have multiple shots, just like a M1A would do. Get a heavier 629 and use it for practice, use the 329 for carry only.

[Tri Burst]

That gun is broken somehow, some way. Get it fixed and do NOT shoot it until it is fixed. What is wrong ???????? But in any event it should NEVER do what you are describing.

[Tri Burst]

The 329PD is a very light gun, and if you are not holding the gun tight enough that is exactly what happend.  If is was a semi auto you would have multiple shots, just like a M1A would do.  Get a heavier 629 and use it for practice, use the 329 for carry only.

I must completely disagree.

A revolver hammer should never come back to the full cock position, ("EDIT") or even to half cock" (END EDIT) without manually pulling the hammer back or by pulling the trigger and the cylinder should ALWAYS rotate one firing pisition when the hammer is pulled back into the full cock position whether manually pulling it back or by using the trigger to cock it and fire it.

This is not normal for a LIGHT gun. The gun has something wrong with it.

[Patrick Sweeney]

I've seen high-speed photos of big-caliber guns in recoil. The hammer can be launched back in recoil hard enough to pivot it off the frame. It may be that the gun is now slicked up from shooting and dry-firing that the hammer can go all the way back and re-cock itself. (Especially if the recoil brings your finger off the trigger enough to let it get in the hammers path. Otherwise the hammer bounces back and falls to rest, unobserved.)

Not a good thing. It might also be that the hammer spring strain screw has backed out, lightening the spring resistance to such recoil forces.

Chekc the screw. If it is tight, a trip back to the factory is in order.

[JohnRodriguez]

The S&W 500 is having the same problem. At the 2003 IRC the problem was explained to us by Ken J. It basically came down to either getting a shooting glove or a grip that absorbs recoil very well.

[JD45]

I've heard the same thing about the S&W M-500. I also talked to a guy once that was having that happen with a S&W M-625 Mountain Gun (45 Colt). He said that it happened when he fired some loads listed for Rugers (the 30,000lup 300gr. loads). Those loads aren't recommended for a Smith anyway. Hot loads and light N-frames must not be made for one another.

[EricW]

Buy a Ruger Redhawk and have it cut down or buy an *old* S&W and use that. And no, you can't get one made of pure unobtainium. The new S&W revos are crap.

Have all the notches on the cylinder been rounded off yet?

[JohnRodriguez]

my CCW gun is a 45 colt mountain gun, machined to take moonclips. The hottest load i'll run tru it is a 250gr gold dot at around 820 fps. If you ever look at one up close you'll see how much metal was removed around the cylinder to cut down the weight. I think the max level +P load for the 45 colt in a Smith is 21000 psi, (this is only for the 45 colt). The gun in question is a 329PD which is a 44 magnum and its operating pressure is 35000 psi, and the idea behind it is a light weight carry gun, unlike going out and buying a 4 lb redhawk. As far as getting a "old" hammer mounted firing pin smith, the idea behind that is being able to get a better trigger job done to it, and you usually don't want a trigger job done to a carry revolver. As far as the "new" smiths being crap, have Randy Lee do a trigger job on a new smith for you, you might be amazed at a 3.5 lb trigger. (sorry to drag your name into this Randy, I've tried Vic's trigger and am amazed that is hasen't light hit once)

[SAW45]

Not a good thing. It might also be that the hammer spring strain screw has backed out, lightening the spring resistance to such recoil forces.

Chekc the screw. If it is tight, a trip back to the factory is in order.

Patrick, What you've said here makes sense. In further questioning of my friend, he states that the gun seems to have really "broke-in" fast, and that the double action was a lot smoother. He then also pointed out to me, that he was after each shooting session, having to tighten the rear sight leaf screw, the thumbpiece nut and the extractor rod. I used a light grade of locktite to secure those 3 screwdown assembies. When I checked the mainspring strain screw, I noticed while it was not visably backed out, it also was not screwed in all the way. I screwed it in all the way and at that point my friend stated it (the double action) now felt like it did when he first got the 329PD. I used the light grade of locktite and screwed it in all the way. Monday, we'll be going to the range and firing about 100 rounds and hopefully the problem will be resolved. I think you hit it on the head with the strain screw. It's interesting how we can overlook something as simple as that strain screw, and I certainly appreciate yours and everyone elses thoughts on this matter!

Peter

[Patrick Sweeney]

When working at the shop, I dealt with a whole lotta cops. Detroit back then had a perfect weapons policy: if you could shoot a qualifying score with it, you could carry it. (The usual caveats: Colt or S&W, DA guns only, no hollowpoints)

I saw a bunch of big-bore duty guns, and almost always at least some of the screws were loose.

When I'm shooting a match, I keep a screwdriver in my bag, and check the screws every other stage.

[blackdragon]

SAW45,

When working in a gunstore I've seem several S&W Titanium guns returned for repair. They are ment to be carried a lot and shot very little! I agree with Triburst, send it back and get it repaired!

Ivan

[EricW]

As far as getting a "old" hammer mounted firing pin smith, the idea behind that is being able to get a better trigger job done to it

Actually, I'm referrring to the overall quality of the S&W revos.

[Randy Lee]

Greetings all,

Since my name was mentioned(thanks John)

I thought I'd add some info on my trigger work- 3.5 lb double action is possible provided you adhere to stringent quality control of reloading practices. Federal small pistol primers seated to max depth without deformation. I can't say how light my latest project trigger pull is, but seek me out at the 2005 IRC after I've fully tested it.

As far as I know most manufactured handguns will never see more than 600-800 rounds over their lifetime. The actual number varies depending on who you talk to.

Like any modern manufacturer, the faster you can make, assemble and ship a product the better your profit margin. Unfortunatley for those of us who like to shoot our revolvers alot, this means more maintenance and often replacement of parts. MIM parts, two piece barrel assemblies seem to be the way of things to come.

In order to make the Ti parts machinable to close tolerances, these space age materials need to be alloyed with softer metals such as aluminum. The characteristics of these wonder materials are lightweight and excellent tensile strength, but the tradeoff is poor wear resistance.

Ti hammers were the rage for a short time in 1911s. The problem was that the hammer hooks were prone to rounding off within a shooting season. The face of the hammer would also wear rapidly from the slide cocking the hammer and riding over it as the slide cycled.

The S&W lockwork was originally designed around a steel frame and the .357 mag pressure envelope as a maximum. I remember the M-29 as having problems as people began hot loading it such as cylinders flopping open after pulling the trigger because of the faster recoil impulse. Innovation seems to hit a wall once the consumer starts to put the product through rigorous testing. As problems arise I'm sure Smith will address them.

Sometimes I think new projects from S&W are created and pushed thru by market research rather than people involved in shooting sports. Okay, I'm stepping off my soapbox...sorry, my bad...