gingerbreadman Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Guys, its frustrating, i can impress people with my off hand skills but if they saw me bench rest shoot they would laugh at me..... some days i can shoot good (1 inch or less at 100 yrds) and other days that grows to a 2 inch group , what gives??? i know its not my loads or rifles as i have had other people shoot the gun(s) and everything straightens out...... Its just my shooting, and it makes it hard to test loads if i dont have confidence in my bench rest consistency...... i need some tips...... thanks -gbm- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbreadman Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Guys, its frustrating, i can impress people with my off hand skills but if they saw me bench rest shoot they would laugh at me..... some days i can shoot good (1 inch or less at 100 yrds) and other days that grows to a 2 inch group , what gives??? i know its not my loads or rifles as i have had other people shoot the gun(s) and everything straightens out...... Its just my shooting, and it makes it hard to test loads if i dont have confidence in my bench rest consistency...... i need some tips...... thanks -gbm- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Are you shootinmg off your reloading bench? (Wrong forum for your question.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Are you shootinmg off your reloading bench? (Wrong forum for your question.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 GBM, Try benchrest.com. They have a great forum there for this type of shooting. Many useful tips there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 GBM, Try benchrest.com. They have a great forum there for this type of shooting. Many useful tips there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I know everyone will think I'm full of crap, but check your stockweld. You don't want to see a shadow on any side of the scope. If the stockweld is not consistent, you will throw rounds - even with scoped rifle. My guess is, that you're having a tough time getting around the rifle and your head is in different spot every time you take a shot. [/Full of Crap Mode OFF] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I know everyone will think I'm full of crap, but check your stockweld. You don't want to see a shadow on any side of the scope. If the stockweld is not consistent, you will throw rounds - even with scoped rifle. My guess is, that you're having a tough time getting around the rifle and your head is in different spot every time you take a shot. [/Full of Crap Mode OFF] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 #Moderation Mode Since this is the reloading section, I moved this question to... Shooting Questions, Rifle/Shotgun Moved here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 #Moderation Mode Since this is the reloading section, I moved this question to... Shooting Questions, Rifle/Shotgun Moved here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 EricW Actually the bench rest shooters don't weld their cheek to the stock. the technique they use is to let the rifle recoil freely without any intervention from cheek or anything else. GBM It is very tough to shoot well with any kind of rifle without a great trigger. If your's breaks at more than 3 lbs and has take up, creep, or overtravel, or a combination of any of these it will be hard. also very hard to shoot well with BIG rifles, like the one you asked the loading questions about. There you do need a good stock weld, and consistent pressure on the fore end with the left hand if it is a real kicker. I will quote my fav riflesmith, Bill Wiseman, real accuracy comes only from the barrel and the ammo being shot through it. The rest of it is getting your equipment tuned and technique. Attempting small groups most folks I know get a good trigger, pillar bed the barrelled action, float the barrel, and take extreme care in loading their ammo, and then work on mastering their technique for the remainder of the things they need, trigger control, reading the wind, reading the mirage, getting the rifle to recoil the same shot after shot from the bags/bench, understanding parallax, etc. dogdoc is right, there is lots of good info at the web site he gave. To answer your question, there is no one thing and without being there to see you shoot and the shot to shot results, it is nearly impossible to diagnose what you need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Make sure your natural point of aim (NPA) is on the target and you're not muscling the gun in the bags. The rifle should be adjusted to rest naturally on the target. Dry fire and observe if the crosshairds move. If they jump around and off target your NPA is off. Some guns like no pressure, others like tighter pressure. I tend to hold the rifles pretty firmly, too much IPSC and highpower. Trigger control applies to the bench as well. Foucs on smooth breaks straight to the rear. FYI I don't like bench shooting. Unless I'm testing loads, I shoot from position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbreadman Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 thanks for the tips guys, sorry for posting in the wrong forumn...... I have heard the term parralax before but could you guys refresh my memory....... Ill be honest here, i shoot my 300 rem ult. really good and fairly consistent and if i punch a flyer through the paper i usually know why...... my 300 is a rem 700 lss with a leopold vari x 3 in 3.5-10 x 40mm ..... my .270 is a old browing (belgium made) bbr with a old not so clear bushnell scope chief 3-9 x40mm and i cant shoot that prick consistent for the life of me no matter what i do......And like i stated before i know the load and gun shoot good........ I have a model70 .06 that i havent had much shooting time with so the verdict is still out with that gun....... I find my 300 sits on the bags so much nicer and the cheak piece fits me and the forarm is thicker, unlike my slimline .270....... any ideas on how i can shoot my .270 a little better at the bench?? -gbm- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 GBM the first thing you need to do, with all the rifles you have is to eliminate all the mechanical things which can go wrong. Example: Good trigger, good bedding, tight action screws, floated barrel, quality scope in good rings and mounts, mounted correctly, ammo as good as you can make it or buy it, barrel clean with no fouling or excess oil or lube (clean and dry). If you have all this as good as you can get it, you should be able to tell if a flyer is the fault of the shooter or not. If the shot felt great and broke when you needed it to, your sight picture was good, hold was good, follow through was good, and the shot went askew, see if you can find a pattern to the poor shots. That should lead you to the problem. Are you stringing them horizontally or vertically? Up and down it is usually too much barrel pressure or the action screws are too tight ( one or both), side to side it is usually the shooter and poor trigger control, if there is no pattern, you might lap the barrel with a good compound, check the crown for a ding or change scopes, then try again. This forum is too short to get into all the things which could be the problem, but try what I suggested and let us know what you find. There are many good/great riflemen on this forum, this info is just my $.02 worth, as there are many ways to skin a cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahauptman Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Try not ingesting any caffeine products 24 hours before you shoot. No coke, coffee, chocolate....... I always shoot better when I can slow down my repertory system. (heart rate and breathing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbreadman Posted February 8, 2003 Author Share Posted February 8, 2003 every time i pick up my 270 i say "man this scope is junk" and everytime i pick up my 300 with the leopold i say "i like this scope" is it possible for the "cheaper" scope on my 270 to be the problem for me??? i know i find it kinda dim and fuzzy...... remember this gun shoots good, my friend has proven it time after time right infront of my eyes yet i cant be consistent with it...... do you suggest try a different scope on it maybe???? -gbm- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 If your buddy punched a one hole group with the same gun and scope, it ain't the scope. Get the best you can afford and don't look back. Read my 2nd post again about the mechanical things and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 "Actually the bench rest shooters don't weld their cheek to the stock. the technique they use is to let the rifle recoil freely without any intervention from cheek or anything else. " Yes, I know that, but I'm pretty sure GBM is fighting a more fundamental issue here. I'm betting the benchrest guys make an effort to at least be consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 EricW Sorry, yes, he does need a good spot weld. I am inclined to believe like you, the problems are more rudimentary than having a Jewell trigger or a Zeiss scope. One of the things I see with younger shooters, they have completely bypassed shooting .22's and are into centerfire. Most of the time, BIG centerfire. If you don't have the basics down pat with a .22 rimfire, there is no way you can expect to have any success with the big centerfire rifles. I would suggest getting a QUALITY bolt .22 rimfire with a QUALITY scope and spend lots of $$ and time learning all the lessons that rifle can teach you. When you can shoot 90% X's off the bench with it, get off the bench and learn the different positions. When you can shoot 90% in each position then get a centerfire. It is just unrealistic to buy a 30-378 topped with a 6.5x20x50 scope take it to the range and believe you are going to sit down and shoot 5 shots into less than a minute of angle. I believe that it is also not realistic to think that an over the counter rifle, no matter who made it, is going to shoot under an inch without some help. I don't own a rifle the is not pillar bedded, barrel floated, and had the trigger either worked on by a competent smith or replaced with a great after market trigger. Getting one to really shoot is exciting, but you have to learn how to shoot them. I have told the story about my bench rest match where I finished 37 out of 39. Benchrest Hall of Fame shooter Don Geracy took my rifle and my ammo and shot a 5 shot group of .110...told me, "...I don't think it's your gun, son." ------------------------------------------------------ Eschew Obfuscation !!! (Edited by tightloop at 1:11 pm on Feb. 8, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbreadman Posted February 9, 2003 Author Share Posted February 9, 2003 tightloop, yes time after time my buddie has shot 3/4 inch groups with my 270 with the same loads i am shooting (hes a seasoned rifleman), infact i have done it on occasion as well, heck i could scan the targets and send em to ya.......... so pretty much it comes down to practise eh? ill go over the mechancle things again but i doubt thats an issue...... I have a ruger 10/22 that iv shot 10's of thousands of rounds through but i doubt thats the kind of .22 your talkin about...... I have been thinking about buying a varmit rifle latly so maybe this is even more of a reason to do so........ thanks guys and im gonna head back up to the range for some more pracitise, I will try and be more consistent with the way my face rests on the stock and more consistent with me grip etc...... thans alot for your help boys.... -gbm- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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