Bear Creek Moly or any other black bullet experience

[Scootertheshooter]

Loading for the steelmaster I wouldn't use lead since it may clog up the comp. that said I use Percision molys and have for years . My combo is Solo with moly , low smoke and recoil. Very soft shooting powder but that's what I like.

[tiger49931]

With the short chamber on the Storm Lake 9 mm conversion barrel in my M&P 40 Pro the Bear Creek Moly 125 gr RN (wt. 128 gr.) have to be loaded at 1.090" to keep them off the rifling.

At 20 yards, shooting off hand through a chrono everything grouped well in the -0 zone of an IDPA target with very little smoke

3.5 gr WST, 1.090 COL

1048-

1076+

1063 * average 136 PF

27.89 c

10.19

Thanks "fltbed".

Steve

I've heard of people using WST with 9 mm and moly but Hodgdon doesn't list it on their website.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

What were you using w/ 125 and 130?

Thanks,Steve

Years ago, Hornady published 9mm data for WST with their 115 and 124 gr. bullets. I used that to extrapolate a start load for the BC 125 & 130’s. The 147 gr. data I got from doing a search on here.

BC 125 gr. TC

4.8 gr. WST (most accurate) Start: 4.2 Max: 5.0

OAL 1.145

Vel. 1080f.p.s.

BC 130 gr. RN

4.2 gr. WST (most accurate) Start: 3.8 Max: 4.7

OAL 1.145

Vel. 1025 f.p.s.

BC 147 gr. TC

3.6 gr. WST (most accurate) Start: 3.4 Max: 3.9

OAL 1.145

Vel. 910 f.p.s.

Their’s not a lot of velocity variations between start loads and max. with the 125’s & 130’s it was less than 100 f.p.s. and with the 147’s it was less than 50 f.p.s. What I found, was when you find that middle ground sweet spot, the velocities get very consistent and consequently, accuracy improves.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

Thank you,

Steve

ok one says 3.5 grain the other says lowest load is 4.2 ??

[fltbed]

With the short chamber on the Storm Lake 9 mm conversion barrel in my M&P 40 Pro the Bear Creek Moly 125 gr RN (wt. 128 gr.) have to be loaded at 1.090" to keep them off the rifling.

At 20 yards, shooting off hand through a chrono everything grouped well in the -0 zone of an IDPA target with very little smoke

3.5 gr WST, 1.090 COL

1048-

1076+

1063 * average 136 PF

27.89 c

10.19

Thanks "fltbed".

Steve

I've heard of people using WST with 9 mm and moly but Hodgdon doesn't list it on their website.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

What were you using w/ 125 and 130?

Thanks,Steve

Years ago, Hornady published 9mm data for WST with their 115 and 124 gr. bullets. I used that to extrapolate a start load for the BC 125 & 130’s. The 147 gr. data I got from doing a search on here.

BC 125 gr. TC

4.8 gr. WST (most accurate) Start: 4.2 Max: 5.0

OAL 1.145

Vel. 1080f.p.s.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

Thank you,

Steve

ok one says 3.5 grain the other says lowest load is 4.2 ??

Your confusing a start load with a minimum load.

A start load is just that, a place to start. A load that is light enough, that you know its safe but yet has enough pressure to at least get the bullet safely out of the barrel. Your chronograph, your gun and your needs, will determine whether you need to use more or less powder from there.

To figure out your start load, you must first determine what your Over All Length (OAL) is for the bullet and your gun. You can use the plunk test, or the dowel rod method I’ve described elsewhere, or any number of ways.

Once you know your OAL it’s time to start looking at data and determining a suitable start load. The time proven way to determine a start load is to look over the data (from multiple sources if possible) and figure out an average max load. Take that number and back it off 10%** and you have your start load.

HOWEVER, you must also take into account your OAL since it has so much effect on chamber pressure with autoloading calibers, especially in an high pressure, low volume, round like the 9mm.

In my case, the data I had was developed with an OAL of 1.165 with a round nose FMJ bullet. Since I was loading a lead bullet at 1.145 OAL, I backed that off by another 5% to be safe.

Another example:

I originally developed my 147 gr. data with Precisions original cast, coated bullet that looks almost identical to the Bear Creek 147 gr. bullet at 1.145 OAL. When precision switched to a swaged truncated nose coated lead bullet, my OAL shrank to 1.090 so I had to determine a new start load and work up all over again. In that instance, I started at 3.0 gr. of WST and worked up to a max of 3.5 gr. with 3.4 gr. giving me the same 910 f.p.s. as the old bullet design. However, my extreme velocity spreads (ES) and Standard Deviations (SD) grew and accuracy wasn’t as good. Also, for some reason, I was getting horrible barrel fouling. So bad that within 30 rounds, I had clogged up the rifling and the bullets started tumbling. That’s why I use the Bear Creek’s today.

As I’ve said before, reloading isn’t exactly plug and play. With all the variables involved, data (even in the manuals) can be very confusing.

Jeff

** This does not apply to 296/H110 magnum pistol powder! It has a very narrow working range and should only be downloaded 3% below maximum!

[tiger49931]

Thank you for the information ill go looking for your other posts on figuring over all length. i didn't know you could go below the booked data. when i learned to reload my dad always just said this is the book use their bullets and there loads to be safest. Sooooo much to learn..

[fltbed]

My handloading mentor was my uncle and he had a bit different view on things. He always taught me that the manuals are just a guide. What’s a safe load in one gun can be a gross overload in another. All they can tell you is their results from their test in their guns. (or universal pressure receiver) It’s up to you, the handloader, to extrapolate all that data and find out what works in your guns.

Most fast burning shotgun powders (and some handgun powders like Bullseye) have a relatively low pressure working range. Some loads won’t even cycle a stock set up gun. Forcing you to either re spring the gun and only use it for light loads (like many of the Bullseye shooters did) or up your powder charge till the gun starts working. When you load below these powders comfort zone, they tend to get some rather large velocity variations, leave unburnt powder residue and black soot marks on the outside of the case due to not having enough pressure to expand the case and properly seal the chamber.

When your using relatively fast powder to make power factor like we do, your near the top of that comfort zone. Here the powder tends to burn very consistent and clean. However, when you push the load above that comfort zone, they tend to spike pressures without forewarning. Leading to all kind of bad things, like rapidly disassembling guns. (That’s why some of us tend to shy away from certain really fast burning powders like, Clays, Nitro 100, R1, etc.)

Hope this helps.

Jeff

[GuildSF4]

I've used Billy Bullets (moly coated 180g TC) for the last 10 years in my STI .40, sometimes with N320, sometimes TG, sometime Universal Clays, haven't noticed any 'smoking', observers may have. I do know the bore has always been very clean. Got some Bear Creek Moly recently, haven't tried it yet.

[tiger49931]

WST SMOKES BAD in my M&P pro 5 in daylihgt not to bad but in a blackout shoot with a flashlight HOLY CRAP was a bad thing...

[8ring]

Is Bear Creek still in existence? Their website is gone and phone calls are never answered.

I need to replenish my supply of .45acp bullets.

Chris

[tiger49931]

they still around Bear creek supply just ordered 3k 147gr 9mm for my new barrel.

[GJGary]

Black Bullets International (BBI) now uses the same coating as Bayou Bullets. I have used 9mms from Percision Bullets and BBIs and only have good things to say and now better with the new BBIs.

[LikesToShoot]

I picked up a 9mm XDm 5.25" and was working up a load with my stash of moly Bear Creek 125 gr RN (actually 128 gr).

With this factory barrel I'm on the lands at 1.090" so I'm loading them at 1.080" and it's working OK using WST.

A quick chrono this evening had a few rounds 3.5 gr WST at 976 FPS (plus several errors), eight shots of 3.7gr WST averaged 1030 FPS, 3.9 gr had too many errors, (bad angle over screens) and seven shots of 4.1 gr WST averaged 1075 PFS.

I only had hand full of the 3.7, 3.9 and 4.1 loaded up and ran out of day light real quick. Tomorrow I hope to shoot some 25 yards groups and see what works best with this gun.

[blaster113]

Really like the new BBI coating. almost no smoke and when cleaning it looks like I fired jhps through the gun instead of molys.

[TerryYu]

I've got some chrono data for the BBI 125gr in 9mm

4.2gr of N320 @ 1.12

Beretta 92F

Avg - 1120

SD - 9.1

Shots - 6

PF - 140

M&P Pro 5"

Avg - 1119

SD - 18.6

Shots - 6

PF - 139

CZ 75 Shadow

Avg - 1107

Shots - 6

SD - 12

PF - 138

I loaded them a bit higher than normal but I'd recommend 4.0gr of N320. That will make about 130 PF.

PS: No smoke when shooting this load.

Edited December 30, 2013 by TerryYu

[azgoose]

I second that. I prefer any BBI over N320 - not smokey

I like the BBI 130 gr over N-320. You definately want to use the load data for lead bullets.