sroe3 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I'm picking up some Bear Creek 135 grain round nose to try out. Universal at max will barely make power factor with any bullet not weighing 124 but that's what I have. Does anyone have any data for 135g lead and Universal? Hodgdon has data for 130g plated and 147 jacketed, no lead at either weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creechy Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Hodgdon Universal is manufactured in Australia by ADI and sold as ADI AP70N, I use it with 135 grain, round nose, lead projectiles from various australian projectile manufacturers without any problems through my 9mm CZ SP01. I load 3.8 grains with Federal SPP and get around 130 - 135 power factor. The maximum load recomended by ADI for AP70N with a 135 grain lead projectile is 4.2 grains. Check online for the ''ADI Smokeless Powders Handloaders Guide'' Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 I just recently loaded and chrono'd some BBI 130gr coated lead (which are actually 132gr) with Universal and Longshot. My load was 3.8gr Universal 1.132" OAL Fiocchi SPP 958.2-1073 fps, avg 1011fps Same load subbing 5gr Longshot gave 1031-1098 fps, avg 1074fps I'm thinking about trying LS again, but at maybe 4.7gr I'd tried this load with Universal before, but my first batch of BBI had a "bad" coating that wasn't properly cured or something (no idea what went wrong with it, but it came off easily on anything they touched). The initial testing produced lots of really nasty smoke. Testing with the replacement batch of bullets, the smoke (with either Universal or Longshot) was much reduced, but still nasty smelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroe3 Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 Thanks for the input Gents. I'll likely start about 3.3 and work up. The Bear Creek bullets smoke and stink also but nothing terrible. It's the moly coating. Universal with plated bullets shoot cleanly. It's the price we pay for cheap bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 I think WST smokes less with moly. 3.3gr Universal sounds kind of low. Are you trying to make a sub-minor 900fps load? Anyway, I'm curious to hear how it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cslafrain Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Kinda curious when you got 130gr BBI. I have owned the company since February of this year and don't remember any complaints on "bad" coating since I have took over. We also don't make a 130gr anymore - it is a 125TC that replaced the 130 because the molds were shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Kinda curious when you got 130gr BBI. I have owned the company since February of this year and don't remember any complaints on "bad" coating since I have took over. We also don't make a 130gr anymore - it is a 125TC that replaced the 130 because the molds were shot. The order was placed September, 2010. I've been kind of slow using the moly bullets. I only bought them for shooting steel at my usual range (they only allow lead bullets on steel targets) and I've mostly just been shooting cardboard. To shoot it, I have to bring/setup my own steel...and I just haven't bothered very many times. What can go wrong with the coating process that would result in the coating easily rubbing off (turning my left finger black while loading them, turned the inside of the shipping box black...the replacement batch didn't do either of these)? The response I got at the time was from someone named Tony simply saying that it sounded like I got a bad batch, and asking where he could send a replacement order of bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cslafrain Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I dont know how that can happen. Since I took over in February we have processed hundreds of thousands of bullets with nothing like that. I I used BBI before I bought the company and I have always had some coating rub off on my finger when loading. It did the same with Precision, Bayou - although a green coating at the time, and Bear Creek. Thanks for the heads up in the fact that it could happen though. It may have been possible that the coating was out of shelf life or something like that . Anyways - like I said give us a try again and I think you will be pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judgecrater Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I'm picking up some Bear Creek 135 grain round nose to try out. Universal at max will barely make power factor with any bullet not weighing 124 but that's what I have. Does anyone have any data for 135g lead and Universal? Hodgdon has data for 130g plated and 147 jacketed, no lead at either weight. I have loaded and fired those 135s with Universal. Started at 3.6gr. Pretty light. Went to 4.0 gr with very good accuracy. Still seemed pretty light. OAL 1.13. I need to kick it up a bit and try again. But Bear Creek 135s and Universal do seem to be a great match in my G17 KKM barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroe3 Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 I currently load 4.1g under a BC 125TC at 1.09 and make about 130 PF. The first two posts suggested 3.8 or 4.2. I'll start at 3.6 like the previous poster suggested. I haven't chamber checked them for length yet so I'm not sure how long I can go. Thanks for all the input. It's a little tougher without a published starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroe3 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Update. I shot some Bear Creek 135 RN over Universal at 1.091 over the chrono today. 4" XD. The lightest bullet of the 10 I checked was 136.5 grain so that's the weight for my calculation. Unfortunately it was getting dark so only a few rounds of each load were recognized. 3.60g averaged 960 for 131 pf. This will be the load for my first 500. 3.72g averaged 973 for 132 pf. 3.84g averaged 1003 for 136 pf. 3.93g averaged 1007 for 137 pf. All powder weights are a 10 dump average. Thanks again for the starting load gents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 How's the smoke with Universal and BC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxerglocker Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) I think WST smokes less with moly. 3.3gr Universal sounds kind of low. Are you trying to make a sub-minor 900fps load? Anyway, I'm curious to hear how it turns out. Very little smoke with WST 4.0g at 1.150 oal gets me to 1000 fps with a BC moly 135 in both my G34 and STI Spartan 9mm. Very clean and accurate. No stink either with the above load. One of my buddies loads Universal with BC molys and his loads smell like rotten eggs. Edited December 9, 2012 by Boxerglocker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroe3 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 I'll try a lb of WST before my next order. I picked Universal for two reasons. First, it was on the Precision moly list of recommended powders. Second, it was readily available locally. Thanks for working the steel match yesterday. It's extra work because of all the newbies. The RO serves as a trainer and has to be on high alert all day. I like seeing new shooters getting involved and having fun. Steel is a good format for that with minimal movement or reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxerglocker Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I'll try a lb of WST before my next order. I picked Universal for two reasons. First, it was on the Precision moly list of recommended powders. Second, it was readily available locally. Thanks for working the steel match yesterday. It's extra work because of all the newbies. The RO serves as a trainer and has to be on high alert all day. I like seeing new shooters getting involved and having fun. Steel is a good format for that with minimal movement or reloads. OH, no problem. it was fun. I like SOing andl seeing new shooters getting involved and having fun. Especially the younger boys that we had in our squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcevans Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I'm loading a 135 Bayou Bullet over 3.9 grains of HP-38 with wolf small pistol primers. I'm getting 950 FPS with a 128 PF out of a Beretta PX4 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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