BillD Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 I know there is an award for top law enforcement at a sanctioned match. Are law enforcement shooters supposed to use a duty rig? If you have some with a duty rig and some with not, is this a different award for both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Murphy Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 At nats there is one LE award, regardless of using your duty rig or plainclothes rig. Been the same for all the other sanctioned matches I've been to. Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted August 24, 2004 Author Share Posted August 24, 2004 At nats there is one LE award, regardless of using your duty rig or plainclothes rig.Been the same for all the other sanctioned matches I've been to. Ted Thank you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMinzghor Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Recently there seems to be a trend to get away from L.E. awards all together at matches. Alot of major matches don't even ask for it on the app. anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 It's always been my opinion that those who compete for the LEO award should shoot from an actual patrol duty rig - minus the cuffs , OC , batons. The Az State MD's (and IDPA) apparently don't share the same point of view Until that day Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjobart Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 At the Michigan State IDPA Championship last month we gave one plaque for High LE (duty or street gear) High Lady and High Senior (50 or over) for total of three special category plaques as per the rule book. We also gave a plaque to the top 33% (down to fifth place) in each division and class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Here the LE special category does not require the shooter to use a duty rig. Actually none of the special categories require the shooter to use different equipment (Lady, Junior, LEO, Military, Senior, Veteran, etc). The rulebook makes a special case for full-time law enforcement patrol officers in that they may use their duty rigs even though it is not designed to be concealed. The exemption says that this duty gear is acceptable. It does not say that it is required. One issue that is not specifically covered in the rulebook is the use of a cover garment with duty gear. There is nothing in the rulebook that excludes LEO's from the requirement of using concealment when the stage so dictates. However it is logical that since the rig wasn't designed for concealment then it doesn't have to be concealed. Another grey area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Law Man Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Depending on their assignment or agency (state or federal), not all Law Enforcement Officers wear a Sam Brown belt with cuffs, baton, O.C. and a threat level 3 holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron durham Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Hi Sacramento Lawman: On this subject we know what a Senior is, we know what a Lady is, but do we know what qualifies as Law Enforcement? At our State Match in California, I was asked to define Law Enforcement.....such as what Law Enforcement groups qualifies.....like City, County etc. I asked this question because I think you are going to be surprised at some of the groups that Hdqs. says should be allowed to compete. So my question is guys......what do you think? And then I will come back with what I was told. By the way, there is a new division......I guess it is new called Veteran.....that is 65 and older. I am knocking at the door!!!! Let's have some fun with this and John did I do good? Ron Durham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 It's always been my opinion that those who compete for the LEO award should shoot from an actual patrol duty rig - minus the cuffs , OC , batons.The Az State MD's (and IDPA) apparently don't share the same point of view Until that day Mark What about guys like Scott Warren? Or plain clothes officers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 It's always been my opinion that those who compete for the LEO award should shoot from an actual patrol duty rig - minus the cuffs , OC , batons.The Az State MD's (and IDPA) apparently don't share the same point of view Until that day Mark What about guys like Scott Warren? Or plain clothes officers? What about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 I asked you first I think the point of having the Law Enforcement catagory is to recognize their involvement in the sport. Nothing more. Otherwise we should allow them to engage like they and military shooters do on the job which would be outside the rules of IDPA. Example: I recall shooting a sanctioned match where they had set up a side match in a shoot house. A member of our squad was SOF member who asked if he had to shoot by IDPA rules or if he was allowed to engage how he would for work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted August 27, 2004 Author Share Posted August 27, 2004 What was the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Law Man Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Bull D. Much better, I'll try and answer your question first. In CA, for several years Correctional Officers were not allowed to compete in the Police Olypmics. They were not recognized as Peace Officers. Reserve officers could not compete either. This caused a lot of strain and tension. This has since changed, although they do not have powers of arrest they now can compete. Now you have Firemen assigned as arson investigators that have peace officer powers. Many federations and clubs now classify L.E. as sworn officers, Corrections and reserves as well. I believe this is what IDPA has adopted. Today so many agencies have investigatiors assigned with peace officer powers, DMV, Insurance Agencies, Welfare, ETC... What defines Veteran, Active duty, reserve, Merchant Marine, Nat'l Guard, ETC?? Next, Mayonaise the question referring to Scott Warren just re-emphasizes my earlier post. You are right as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron durham Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Hi John: Very informative post, thanks. What I was going to bring into this is I was asked by the State folks to define Law Enforcement. I spent quite a bit of time going over all the agencies and at the very end I excluded Rent-a-Cops, Conceal Carry (of course) & Animal Control. A complaint was sent to Hdqs. by an Animal Control person and Hdqs. sided with him but their main premise was there was no definate catagories that were excluded ....... which my understanding is everybody is included. There is no standards basically, it is whatever the Clubs decides to let in. Anyways, that was my findings and am not going to comment on my opinion (Peg won't let me). See you in a couple of weeks. Ron Durham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Murphy Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I suppose this may be part of the reason GSSF redid things and went with "guardian" instead of "LE". Seems to make a lot more people happy. Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Example: I recall shooting a sanctioned match where they had set up a side match in a shoot house. A member of our squad was SOF member who asked if he had to shoot by IDPA rules or if he was allowed to engage how he would for work. Since it was a side match and the proceeds went to charity they let him shoot it how he would in "work". We didn't get to see his run in the shoot house unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Law Man Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Bull D. The problem is, if you get too strict on your definiton of L.E., you eliminate too many qualified persons. Anyway, see you next week.. By the way, if you start making posts talking about zen I am going to take you in for a 5150 eval.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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