Armson OEG in Tactical

[Religious Shooter]

I haven't handled or looked through one of these old school sights. But posts at ar15.com indicate that it is a non-optic/electronic sight.

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/parts_n...fm?categoryID=6

Is it a non-optic sight?

In the context of USPSA, IMGA, RM3G, SMM3G, etc., is this a legal second sight for Tactical?

Furthermore... can it be used as a shotgun sight for Tactical?

[diehli]

It's a little odd... they were popular in paintball a while back. Basically, your brain tells you that the dot that you're looking at with one eye is on the target that you're looking at with the other. As far as it being an optic, it does use fiber optic to give you a red dot.

My opinion of it is 50/50. I wouldn't argue if someone said it was an optic, but it isn't the kind of optic that we're used to/seems to be the issue with the rules. I'd email Amidon and see what he has to say.

[George]

The definition of “Optic” for IPSC is Electronic in nature (active circuitry), or with any sort of Lens that you see the target through. If fiber-optic front sights are allowed on Limited gear at present, this looks to be a lock for the loophole because it is passive and has no glass, or plastic that you see the target through. A glass/plastic ghost ring with a fiber-optic dot in the center would probably be called an optic sight because you see the target through a lens of some sort, but this sight occludes the strongside eye, so it looks to be 100% exempt because you don’t see “through“ it.

--

Regards,

[Zak Smith]

An Aimpoint M2 or TA11/TA31 ACOG with the front lens covered works identically to the Armson OEG. You're not looking "through" anything, but the dot appears on the target.

For that matter, I bet the same idea would work with a Doctor or JPoint.

-z

[Religious Shooter]

Yah but the problem is that you can't use those sights as a second close range sight because they are definitely optic and/or electronic in nature and intent.

[SinistralRifleman]

well for a definitive answer this is what I just e-mailed to the SMM3G Match Director....

-----------------------

Dan,

I know you're very busy, but I have a quick question for you regarding equipment allowed in Tactical Scope class.

Is the Armson OEG considered a secondary sighting system if used on a rifle, or as a non-iron sight system if used on a shotgun. I ask because the rules 6.5.3 and 6.8.5 both refer to "optical" and "electronic" sights. The OEG is neither electronic (uses a fiber optic system), nor optical as it has no lens you look through, and it actually occludes the dominant eye when used.

Armson OEG:

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/parts_n...fm?categoryID=6

Just want to get this cleared up before I show up with something I may not be able to use in my class.

Thank you for your time,

---Russell Phagan

Cavalry Arms Staff

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[kurtm]

Zak:

NONE of the Trijicon scopes you mention, with thier front lens occluded, are the "same" as and OEG. The TA-11 and TA31 are Prisim scopes. The focal plan is on the side not in the middle!!! If you don't belive me just occlude one and try it at 100 yardes!! you won't even be on the same playing field!!! On the other hand the Armson of which I have one will do a fair job out to 100 and a bit beyond. IT IS NOT A PRISIM OPTIC!!!! It is a single light source in the occular focal plane! NOT THE SAME!!!! KURTM

[SinistralRifleman]

Here is the response I just got from Dan Furbee, the match Director for SMM3G:

-------------------------

Russell:

The way the rules will be interpreted is if the "sight system" that is

attached to the rifle/shotgun is anything other than a front/rear iron

configuration that requires the shooter to align both sights in

conjunction with the target, it will be considered a scope/optic.

Dan

------------------------------

[rmfield]

So I guess a simple bead sight (with no rear sight) on a shotgun is a "optic/scope" at SMM3G? There's got to be a better way to say what I think Dan is trying to say. Anybody got any ideas?