What was this EAA Carry Comp setup for?

[MikeChandler]

I just took a gun in trade in, and am trying to figure out what it was setup for. It's a Witness 40SW Carry Comp, and It has 5 magazine followers setup on what I think might be mecgar high cap magazines. The magazine pads allow to extra rounds, but they are not angled like the hennings ones. They have two allen screws to disable them. The compensator screws off the threaded barrel. Other than the magazines, it's apparently stock - EAA reported:

The serial number provided is a Witness 40sw Carry comp , this is considered a small frame due to the frame change in 2005 . This model can be converted to the following calibers :

Small Frame Fullsize 9mm

or

Small frame fullsize 22lr

Any idea what sport this was possibly used for? Or was it just somebody's plinker? Also, what recoil spring is recommended for it, and where would one find replacement magazine springs? I've disassembled one of the mags, carefully cleaned it, but there are still some FTF problems. I am guessing it might be the recoil spring.

[ckell101]

No idea what that could be used for. Modified maybe? But it is a pretty rad looking piece of equipment

[GrumpyOne]

It's a pin gun.....Bowling pin matches....

[sfinney]

It's a pin gun.....Bowling pin matches....

+1

[MikeChandler]

Ah hah! That makes sense!

Is this still a decent pin gun, or are there superior choices now? What could be done to improve it, and what shouldn't be done to it?

Thanks!

[MikeChandler]

So...That leads me to ask what the best .40 S&W ammo would be for Pin Shooting.

Should I try that ammo before I replace the recoil spring, as it might be setup for it?

[Skydiver]

Although, it's a small frame gun, the mags maybe old enough that the feedlips are expanding a bit and causing the FTF. For mags, that old, I don't know what the lips width should be, but for the Tanfoglio .40 mags that have been replaced by the working MecGars, 0.385-0.390 was a good range to go for.

As for a pin gun, I've been told that .45 was the way to go, but I've only ever shot with 9mm.

[MikeChandler]

The lips are measuring .382-.387 with a "somewhat" recently calibrated fowler caliper. No bigger than .387 anywhere.

I've got bigger problems anyway, at least I think I do. When I rack the slide it doesn't feel right. Now I have never racked a witness before, but there's an inordinate amount of scraping going on. There is the whole portion that just feels wrong, like mechanically stuff isn't fitted right, or something is hitting where it isn't supposed to. All my other semi autos, once the hammer is back, you can just endless rack the slide without meeting uneven resistances.

And then there's the firing pin (which I started examining because of the firing pin safety, which I thought might be the culprit). When I pull the firing pin safety block out, it's got a groove ground in, and I can reverse the firing pin and it still allows firing. It's just all lousy fit.

Any excitement I had has dissipated. I feel like somebody just dumped their problem on me.

It would be very helpful if somebody racked their witness slide a few times, slowly and told me if there's some rough spots - like mechanically hitting or rubbing on stuff - and if that's normal.

Thanks!

[Skydiver]

Definitely not normal. Most people are amazed by how smooth the slide and and frame are on Tanfoglios.

Check the hammer and the underside of the slide where where the hammer rides on. The contact points should be smooth. Unlike most 1911's where the hammer barely puts pressure on the underside of the slide, the Tanfoglios I own all put pressure on that surface.

[Skydiver]

Taking a closer look at the pictures you posted, I've never seen these ridges before, but then I've not handled a lot of Tanfoglios:

Anybody know if these are normal?

[MikeChandler]

That's a good question - because they are are along the rails in a good many spots on both sides of the rails. I don't know if it's partially responsible, but there is considerable roughness when pushing down on the two tangs that extend from the trigger group into the rails. Is that normal? They make an audible scraping sound.

[Bill Nesbitt]

This looks like one of the guns that was designed to be a carry gun. They would cut the slide length and add a comp to make it the same length as a regular slide gun. You would have a gun short enough to be carried concealed and still have a comp. Somebody probably added the mag extentions later.

[Skydiver]

That's a good question - because they are are along the rails in a good many spots on both sides of the rails. I don't know if it's partially responsible, but there is considerable roughness when pushing down on the two tangs that extend from the trigger group into the rails. Is that normal? They make an audible scraping sound.

That sounds more like a simple issue of dirt and lack of lubrication. The sides of the trigger bow is a recommended spot for polishing.

See Henning's video at: http://henningshootsguns.com/tech/tech.tanfoglio.frame.assembly.html

Or read at: http://tanfo11.com/smoothingandpolishing.htm

For your trigger pull, you don't need to worry about the up down movement as much as you do about front to back. For the front to back movement, the sear should trip long before the up and down movement happens for the disconnect and reset phases.

Part of the "creaking" or "crackling" is you are hearing is the plunger that is holding up the trigger bar. That is because some guns have rough spots in the channel that holds the trigger bar up. This shouldn't be too much an issue unless you are feeling something that feels like "creeping".

[MikeChandler]

For your trigger pull, you don't need to worry about the up down movement as much as you do about front to back. For the front to back movement, the sear should trip long before the up and down movement happens for the disconnect and reset phases.

Part of the "creaking" or "crackling" is you are hearing is the plunger that is holding up the trigger bar. That is because some guns have rough spots in the channel that holds the trigger bar up. This shouldn't be too much an issue unless you are feeling something that feels like "creeping".

Okay, I have the sear out now, and when I pull the trigger I get the scraping. It's apparently the top of the plunger against the trigger bar. Against my better judgement, I am now taking out the trigger bar to see this channel you are talking about.

By the way, stripped down to this level, it's not rough anymore when I put the slide in. In fact, I can now see how loose the slide is in the rails. Any idea what the spec is supposed to be on that?

[MikeChandler]

I have the trigger pieces out, I will take pictures of them. I think that was the issue - that plunger scrapes just when I push on it.

This whole assembly is the culprit. It's cheap, it twists on lousy pins when installed, it has roughness where it shouldn't. Those serrated looking rough edges on the slides? They are twice the size on the side of the trigger bar. And the trigger plunger is terrrible. It scrapes just when I push it together, even after soaking in brake fluid.

Does anybody make a drop in tuning kit for this gun?

Edited January 20, 2012 by MikeChandler

[MikeChandler]

Another question - should the breech, and for that matter the barrel and lug, look this rough?

I cant add anymore pictures. Maybe there is some time limit I have to cross on the forums.

Edited January 20, 2012 by MikeChandler

[Skydiver]

I don't think there is a kit assembled. You can get the OEM parts from EAA or Henning. I don't don't if Rich also sells trigger parts or not. EGW has sears and hammers.

If you want to tune up the entire trigger system I recommend contacting Henning and getting these parts. He's a great guy and will have tons of good advice. You'll need the small frame version of these parts:

- trigger bar

- trigger plunger

- prepped EGW sear

- prepped EGW hammer

- Henning sear pin

- a kit of Henning Trigger plunger springs

- 13 lbs. hammer spring

- Henning XL firing pin

- Extra power firing pin spring

You'll probably need a reamer to fit the sear pin into the sear.

The underside of the trigger bar needs to be polished where it contacts the roller. The sides where it rubs on the frame needs to be polished. The tips of the trigger bar where it rides on the underside of the slide should be polished lightly. There is also a rub area on the rear part of the trigger bar that contacts the sear and the sear cage.

You'll need to take out your firing pin block since the EGW sear doesn't have the arm to disable the firing pin block as you pull the trigger. Shouldn't be a loss since you said that your current FPB doesn't seem to work anyway. Additionally, the Henning XL firing pin doesn't work with a FPB.

You'll need to fit the sear to your safety. Take your time doing this to get it right.

Polish the trigger plunger face, as well as the post that the spring rides on.

Optional:

- Heuning roller plunger

- Henning Flat Trigger System

The Heuning roller needs to be trimmed so that only the roller touches the area underneath the trigger bar.

If you want more control over pre travel and over travel, the Henning Flat Trigger System is the way to go. You'll need to spend time tuning for a good reset, though.

I'm really suspicious about all those ridges on your gun. Did the previous owner soak the parts in some kind of chemical bath that ate away at the metal surfaces?

[MikeChandler]

I don't think there is a kit assembled. You can get the OEM parts from EAA or Henning. I don't don't if Rich also sells trigger parts or not. EGW has sears and hammers.

If you want to tune up the entire trigger system I recommend contacting Henning and getting these parts. He's a great guy and will have tons of good advice. You'll need the small frame version of these parts:

- trigger bar

- trigger plunger

- prepped EGW sear

- prepped EGW hammer

- Henning sear pin

- a kit of Henning Trigger plunger springs

- 13 lbs. hammer spring

- Henning XL firing pin

- Extra power firing pin spring

You'll probably need a reamer to fit the sear pin into the sear.

The underside of the trigger bar needs to be polished where it contacts the roller. The sides where it rubs on the frame needs to be polished. The tips of the trigger bar where it rides on the underside of the slide should be polished lightly. There is also a rub area on the rear part of the trigger bar that contacts the sear and the sear cage.

You'll need to take out your firing pin block since the EGW sear doesn't have the arm to disable the firing pin block as you pull the trigger. Shouldn't be a loss since you said that your current FPB doesn't seem to work anyway. Additionally, the Henning XL firing pin doesn't work with a FPB.

You'll need to fit the sear to your safety. Take your time doing this to get it right.

Polish the trigger plunger face, as well as the post that the spring rides on.

Optional:

- Heuning roller plunger

- Henning Flat Trigger System

The Heuning roller needs to be trimmed so that only the roller touches the area underneath the trigger bar.

If you want more control over pre travel and over travel, the Henning Flat Trigger System is the way to go. You'll need to spend time tuning for a good reset, though.

Thanks for the list - i will call tomorrow. At the minimum the roller plunger is a great idea.

I'm really suspicious about all those ridges on your gun. Did the previous owner soak the parts in some kind of chemical bath that ate away at the metal surfaces?

I have no idea what scumbags do in their spare time - but polishing the trigger bar, the same type of serrated look appears. It's either the way the paint bath happened, or a problem in the MIM process, or actual serrations. After complete disassembly the slide moves very evenly and nicely. It's surprising it's not a tighter fit in the frame though.

Anyway, I'm thinking the serrated looking places where the finish is wearing is just a problem in the finish, since I can rub it off, and see that pattern happening everywhere.

[MikeChandler]

The careful polishing of the trigger plunger and trigger bar plunger channel and trigger bar sidebars followed by reassembly did the job.

It now racks as nice as any I've tried in stores.

Thanks for the help! Now I am off to solve the safety and barrel issues. If I take care of that, I will probably revisit this with some better parts and pins. Those pins REALLY SUCK.

Thanks again!

[vous]

According to the Tanfoglio catalogue from 1997-98 the Carry-Comp was "specially made for speed and action shooting...."! That is as specific as it gets.

As a matter of interest, the Carry-Comp and it's higher end option the Professional Defence both disappeared from the Tanfoglio catalogues in around 1999-2000 however the kit to make up one of these was still available from sometime after!!