Peeking question

[mactiger]

Flex, there is a rule in the current rule book that says, in effect, the competitor can't leave the start position with a loaded gun. Pretty close to the same rule number in the new rules, IIRC. Don't have a copy handy here at work, though.

Troy

[BDH]

US8.3.1.1 (15th ed.) Once the "Load and Make Ready" command has been given, the competitor must not move away from the start location prior to issuance of the "Start Signal" without the prior approval, and under the direct supervision, of the Range Officer.

[mactiger]

There ya go, Flex. That therapy must be working BDH.

Troy

[Jim Norman]

BDH, Mac, Flex, This still does not answer the primary question.

Since we score the strings at the end in the USPSA can I make up a Mike from string one in string two.

I am shooting at 25 yards with a 9mm and I can't see the holes, my buddy is shooting a .45 and having both better eyes and making bigger holes he can see his hits.

I know about calling shots and all. That is not in play here.

I shoot and have two mikes. I can't tell at 25 yards so i leave them. My buddy shoots and also has two mikes, he sees the lack of holes and being quick, fires off 2 A hits, he gets two extra shot penalties, but no mikes.

My turn at the second shooting box at 10 yards, Hey, I am missing two hits on T2. I am also quick on the trigger and fire two extra shots, no more mike penalties, just the same extra hits that my buddy got.

Is this OK? Note, I did not walk past the subsquent shooting position to see the hits or lack of.

Now I know that some in the IPSC side of the world will tell me that that is why they score each string. Fine, but that is not the discussion here. In USPSA we do not.

What is the call? Can I do this? If I can't because it was from the second position, what rule are you quoting? The stage is VC, so I accept the extra shot penalties.

There is no rule against shooting more rounds, there are penalties for more hits and for extra shots.

On the subject of extra shots fired, I think someone else pointed out that if the shooter put the extra shots into a NS and had more than 2, what would you do? Would you count the extra hit? the extra NS won't count anymore. How do you penalize a hit that is not there. THe Extra shot, OK, but I don't think you should be able to ding for the extra NS or the Extra Hit.

Jim

[Flexmoney]

Since we score the strings at the end in the USPSA can I make up a Mike from string one in string two.

Sure, why not?

I am shooting at 25 yards with a 9mm and I can't see the holes, my buddy is shooting a .45 and having both better eyes and making bigger holes he can see his hits.

I'd have to say "tough titty" on that one.

Although, if you can come up with a good arguement for that one, let me know. I'd like to apply it to the NBA. As I like to play basketball...and I'd love to get pay'd, but I think they would say I am too short and too slow. (such is life)

Extra shot penalty = -10

Extra hit penalty = -10

Extra hit on a NS = NO extra hit penalty

[mactiger]

Since this was the original question:

As I was walking up to the starting position for string two and I could not see all my hits so I walked half way to the targets (12 yards) and took a look and noticed that I shanked two. Went back to the starting point and got ready to shoot.

Someone in the peanut gallery said I was cheeting by looking at my hits. Any rules covering this? I was still 12 or so yards fromt he targets.....

I'd have to say we answered it. You can look at your hits, provided you can see them from where you are. You cannot, per the rules, advance beyond the start position to look at your hits.

For your question: whether you can make up a shot in a later string, the answer is that under USPSA rules and procedures, yes. Note that the US rules do allow for scoring between strings, if the match organizers decide to do it that way.

Should you do it? Not according to the rationale for separate strings (Vince is right, strings represent separate encounters or shooting problems), but the only rules that address this are the ones that assign procedural penalties for the extra shots. If you happen to have missed seeing one of your hits, and make it up, and end up with more than the allowed scoring hits on the target, then you'd get an extra hit penalty as well. If you hit a no-shoot, you only get the no-shoot penalty, NOT an extra hit (those are only for scoring targets, not penalty targets), as Flex$ has pointed out. So, each extra shot you take will cost you -10 points. If you figure you can hit an A, then it might be to your advantage to pick it up. Of course, if you are too far away to actually see the hits, but make some up anyway, then it's a crap shoot, penalty wise. If it's timed fire, then you're only shooting for points, so the extra shot will negate any hit you might acquire, as misses don't count against you.

Does that answer your question?

Troy

[driver8M3]

so, what is the penalty for walking forward of a starting line without permission from the RO? procedural(s)? DQ?

[mactiger]

There is no penalty specified, per se, the rule only says you can't do it. The RO should stop you and get you back to the start line. Once you've been told not to do it once, though, I suppose there could be a DQ on the 2d offense. I don't think it would, or should, ever get to that point, however.

Troy

[Tman33_99]

If you hit a no-shoot, you only get the no-shoot penalty, NOT an extra hit (those are only for scoring targets, not penalty targets

Unless your No-Shoot hit, touches the outer perf scoring mark over the no-shoot target and is on a shoot target also, then you may get both the No-Shoot and the Extra Hit (if this results in extra hits on "that" scoring target, for a nice -20

[mactiger]

Yep, that's what I said, I think.

...an extra hit (those are only for scoring targets, not penalty targets

There are hundreds of possible scenarios. You pays your money, you takes your chances.

Troy

[SVI4ME]

I love startin st*t....

I guess troy wins........

I promise not to do it again. That is what I wanted was a definate rule stating whether it was ok or not. Now we know

Thanks all for the entertainment.