6 O'Clock Hold

[Sin-ster]

Do any of you know how the xdm comes sight in from the factory? I've been shooting mine at six inch steel plates mostly from 15 yards and find that the 6 o'clock hold is what I'm having to do. Also, do you recommend that I keep it this way or change it? My duty gun is set up poa/poi. Thanks

It's going to be relative to what load you're shooting. Heavier bullets, for example, often (but not always) shift POI in relation to POA. And specific projectiles within the same weight range can have a similar effect, due to their contact surface size being changed between the bullet and the rifling.

For what we do, "driving the dot" is optimal. Further, if your duty gun is set up POA/POI, my preference would definitely be to have that consistent across all of my pistols. In other words, I'd pick the round I was going to shoot through the XDm and adjust my front sight height as needed (or of course adjust the rear, if you have that option).

[Xander]

I lean more towards where I think Brian is talking about than the classic meaning many think of when they hear "6 o'clock hold", maybe sort of an in-between I guess...

Maybe call it a "modern 6 o'clock" or a sort of hybrid hold as I prefer all my guns to hit the same as my 9mm Glocks do with Warren/Sevigny comp sights (black serrated fronts, no FO's for me): POI is exactly at the the top of the front blade at 7 yards and POI moves slightly up from there as distance increases to where to hit a 6" plate at 25 yards, I simply put the plate on top of the front blade and it'll drop every time with a center hit (so maybe 3" - 4" above the tip of the front blade @ 25 yards). What I like about it is that a 6" target zone at 25 yards will appear small enough to where the front blade will completely cover it up and mean one has to guess, so the POI being a little high allows me to see what I'm trying to hit and really aim rather than just winging it. It's not something I have to think about, I put the tip of the blade where I want the bullet to go and that's about it, the "6 o'clock-ness" or whatever takes care of itself and seems to just happen naturally as distances increase without me having to consciously think about it as it's instinctual to look at the target then transition focus to the blade.

I can't stand a "hold over" sight picture anymore, and now find it really sloppy and imprecise, that said, if I were still shooting FO's I might feel differently as it seems most guys tend to "drive the dot" only using the top of the blade for longer shots.

do you have the .215 or .245 front height?

[Grunt]

Man, I must be an old timer because I was originally taught the 6 o'clock hold by the Marine corps 40 or so years ago.

FWIW, 6 o'clock hold is still alive and kicking in the precision shooting games (i.e. bullseye.) In fact, a more common variation is the sub-6 hold where the bull is floating above the front sight with some white space in between. I believe Brian Zins (6-time National Champion), among other top bullsye shooters, use a sub-6. I recently switched to a sub-6 and have found it to be much more beneficial for indoor matches than a center hold. With the limited lighting, it is very easy to lose the front sight in the bull and seeing variance in alignment is problematic.

But IMO, center hold is the only way to go for IPSC/IDPA shooting games, indoors or out.

Grunt

[RammerJammer]

Man, I must be an old timer because I was originally taught the 6 o'clock hold by the Marine corps 40 or so years ago. And I do remember carbide lamps and the soot that was used to blacken the sights. And when I first started in law enforcement we were using Smith and Wesson Model 66-1's, and most all fo the proficent shooter used to two-stage the double action pull. Our qualification course was even teh old PPC Long Course that involved shooting 12 rounds at 50 yards. The six o'clock hold allows for you to see exactly where yur sights are when teh shot breaks, but becomes more and more difficult as the time allowed decreases. For those of us that are "old guys," the PPC and military courses were extremely generous when it came to time allowed to fire a course of fire. Military was almost always power and accuracy, and PPC was almosty all accuracy. .38 wadcutters in 4 or six in Smiths were the rule. If I remember the load right, it was a 148 grain hollo-based wadcutter over 2.7 grains of Bullseye. Not too fast, but I don't know if there is a more predictable pistol load around.

Ahh yes the 'smudge pot'. It was still in use as late as 2005. The 6 o'clock hold has gone the way of the 1911 and starching cammies though.

[ck1]

I lean more towards where I think Brian is talking about than the classic meaning many think of when they hear "6 o'clock hold", maybe sort of an in-between I guess...

Maybe call it a "modern 6 o'clock" or a sort of hybrid hold as I prefer all my guns to hit the same as my 9mm Glocks do with Warren/Sevigny comp sights (black serrated fronts, no FO's for me): POI is exactly at the the top of the front blade at 7 yards and POI moves slightly up from there as distance increases to where to hit a 6" plate at 25 yards, I simply put the plate on top of the front blade and it'll drop every time with a center hit (so maybe 3" - 4" above the tip of the front blade @ 25 yards). What I like about it is that a 6" target zone at 25 yards will appear small enough to where the front blade will completely cover it up and mean one has to guess, so the POI being a little high allows me to see what I'm trying to hit and really aim rather than just winging it. It's not something I have to think about, I put the tip of the blade where I want the bullet to go and that's about it, the "6 o'clock-ness" or whatever takes care of itself and seems to just happen naturally as distances increase without me having to consciously think about it as it's instinctual to look at the target then transition focus to the blade.

I can't stand a "hold over" sight picture anymore, and now find it really sloppy and imprecise, that said, if I were still shooting FO's I might feel differently as it seems most guys tend to "drive the dot" only using the top of the blade for longer shots.

do you have the .215 or .245 front height?

.215"