Witness Quality

[priler]

i'd like to ask the collective here a few questions on the witness elite series.most of them pertain to quality.

first off,the frames of the elites are cast just like the standard full size steel,correct?they are not from solid steel milled,correct? what about MIM parts inside,which i think they are,i'm correct? i don't ask this to debate or argue the merits of each,i just want to know.

for those of you that have put tens of thousands of rounds through your elite,how is it holding up? have the clearances stayed the same? was the barrel fitted nicely? slide to frame? have you noticed the POI open up over time? how about the smaller parts staying together nicely,like the "supersights" and everything else? how about the chrome,any problems with that? any general problems you can relate over long term usage would be greatly appreciated.

while generally i've heard mostly good reports from most,i've also heard a few QC and inconsistency problems too.there was even a gentleman from italy that posted on this forum reporting about a lack of QC and stating lots of folks in europe have found it better to go in a different direction(CZ)and that tanfoglio has hand picked examples for big name shooters. is there any truth to this? are the ones going to "regular" european customers any different from what we get here in the USA? does the expression "hit or miss" apply to the EAA witness elites? do ALL of them truly get tanfoglio's performance center full attention?

.....or,number of accessories aside,as far as QC and long term durability and consistency,is one better off going to cz,like a shadow or whatever?(i know cz frames are cast,that's not necessarily the issue)

i realize these are not shooting discipline questions but i figure most of you put more rounds through yours in one year than lot of other people put in 20 years.

these questions pertain to what eaa/tanfoglio is offering right now brand new or thereabout,just in case anything has changed over the years.

[BritinUSA]

Guns are like cars. A factory can turn out thousands of them and one or two could be lemons. Tanfoglio Elites are certainly cheaper than other 'race-guns' either Open or Limited but that does not imply a problem. My Elite .38 Super was the most accurate gun I've ever owned (right out of the box), but I have struggled with feeding issus.

With regard to the smaller parts; much of the Tanfoglio line have modular parts, ie. the same parts are used in multiple gun platforms offered by Tanfoglio. They are more than adequate to get you started. As those parts wear they can be replaced with custom made parts (see Henning's web-site). The custom parts are significantly better quality than the factory originals and have been personally designed by Henning who's been shooting these guns for years. He is a bit of a perfectionist for this stuff, spending hours at his machinists, fine-tuning designs etc.

Almost every part of the Tanfoglio/Elite can be replaced with custom parts to further enhance the gun.

A few people have had problems with the finish of the gun flaking off, there have been instances of slide/frame cracks. But I've seen those issues on guns costing considerably more.

With the news that a new Distributor is coming online shortly (Italian Firearm Group or something like that) there are rumours that the full line of the latest/greatest Tanfoglio pistols will soon be available in USA. Up until now EAA have only imported the large frame Elites, the small frame are supposedly more reliable (functionally) than the large frame. So if you are contemplating a purchase it may serve you well to wait a little while as your options could increase.

[priler]

thanks for sharing BritinUSA. yeah,when i read about that new italian group it made me think of the possibilities in the near future. small frame huh? i don't think i've ever seen a small frame limited pro,i'm thinking it doesn't exist. 9mm is what i prefer right now.

[Nealio]

I personally think the Tanfoglio Elite pistols are a steal at their cost. They cost less than IMHO anything that is comparable by a long ways. If you've ever held/shot a Limited and compared it directly to another $1000-1100 pistol its a night and day difference. I've shot a few Brazzos STI's, several Para's, and tons of 1911's. I think you can find a nice single stack that's comparable in quality, accuracy, and function for about the same price, but nothing in a double stack than can compare.

One thing I see many people get caught up on is that they have held/shot/read about the lower end Witness pistols and they assume the quality standard is the same for the Witness pistols. I personally think the Elite pistols are on a completely different level than the standard witnesses. Most major gun companies make different levels of guns, and Tanfoglio is no different. The standard witness has no hand fitting or anything, much like any other standard issue firearm. My elite is tight and smooth, just like any $2500 STI. It also shoots amazing groups. In fact most everyone who has handled or shot my pistol has complimented on how nice the trigger is, how well its balanced, and how accurate it shoots. They are usually surprised at how little it costs.

Also you will hear a lot of people say that the Tanfoglio is a "crappier CZ clone". I think maybe the entry level pistols from CZ may be slightly higher quality, but I would be very surprised if the CZ Tactical Sport was 'better' than the Tanfoglio Limited. I have to admit I've never held one, or even SEEN a Tactical Sport, so I could be wrong. But the quality of the parts, tightness of the slide fit, accuracy, and reliability of my Tanfoglio is excellent. Granted there are a couple things everyone does to enhance how they work, but most guns under $2000 will require some work.

As far as the parts go, I do not think there are any MIM parts. If there are MIM parts, they are doing it a log better than the US companies are. My Para has MIM parts on it and they are easy to spot.

So my 9mm Limited has over 8,000 rounds through it (maybe close to 9,000). It shoots great, looks great, and has been amazingly reliable.

My 10mm Match has more like 1500 rounds through it and shoots awesome and has had no issues.

I didn't even know about Tanfoglio a few years ago, and now I tell everyone who's looking for a nice all steel pistol to check them out. Most people thing you only have a few options for an all steel gun: CZ75, single stack 1911, or a S_I. Few people even know about these guns (which in some ways is good, some ways is bad).

I honestly cannot think of a better value for a nice pistol.

[Iggy42]

I was VERY interested in a Limited for USPSA shoots, but the feed problems have really turned me off. Now from what I understand if you reload your own ammo it can easily be compensated for and after a bit of trial and error it can be cleared up. However if you are in a situation like me where you have to use factory ammo I am yet to find a solution that would allow me to run a Witness Limited in .40 cal with 140mm mags and not have feed problems. Between a CZ and and Witness Limited I would much rather have the Limited (Disclaimer: I am yet to see either of these in real life. Best I have been able to do is on the web) but I do need a pistol I can run pretty much anything in. I very much hope that the Mec Gear mags in 40 will clear up the feeding issues so a guy like me can pick up a Limited, but since I have not been able to discover when they will be availible, or if they make it so a .40 cal Limited can run factory ammo error free it is possible I will have to pass on a Limited and either get a CZ TS, or have tupperware modded to run in USPSA Limited (really don't want a plastic gun, but not much of a choice for a tight budget).

Another thing that is turning me off is that from what I am told EAA is not bringing in anymore Tanfoglios so until IFG gets up and running you have to do some searching to get your hands on them. I would be happier if I had an idea of when IFG will get things moving and make guns availible. All I can find on them is the announcement in Tacital Life Mag, no website no nothing.

[holdinsteady]

I just purchased two Elite Limiteds on line from Cheaper Than Dirt, a 40sw and a 45acp. I think they were $975 ea. Both guns are great shooters and I have had no feed problems with either gun. Shooting both factory and handloads. Put a flat trigger, thumb rest, slide racker and a Leupold Delta Point on the 40sw and I like the set up so much that I ordered the same stuff for the 45. Only about 500 rounds thru each gun so I can't speak to longevity but they are impressive so far!