Long Range Rifle Targets

[Kyle O]

Something I noticed at SEVERAL matches over the years is the ability to consistantly get long range hits called correctly for all shooters.

Larues and MGM flash are really good for this, but I've seen people hit targets, and not have hit called, and miss and have hit called. I believe this is going to be more important than penalty times.

Example: The last 2 local matches I shot, on the long range stages, I couldn't tell myself if I was hitting (static steel), but when the video was reviewed when I got back to the house, it turned out I would hit a target 4-6 times, before it was called. I didn't really care, as it was local, but for "big" matches, I think this is the most vital part of LR scoring.

BTW, I agree with trapr about proper presentation, but calling hits still would matter in that situation as well, so if a penalty is gonna be assigned for say >300, then I vote 15 sec. 10 seems short, 20 seems excessive, and as you stated, 30 will make or break you. Good luck!

[biga9999]

and just for 2 more cents,,, one of the hardest things for me to do in LR stages is to take,, my 3 or 4 shots at each, hit and miss and STOP,, and not take 5 min to shoot untill I'm out of ammo,,

Me too. I am not going to win anything anytime soon, except maybe largest shoe size at the range. But I can not turn my mind off and stop shooting.

I keep shooting at the 500 yrd targets, because this is the only time I really get a chance to shoot out that far, and sooner or later I am going to hit the damn thing.

[biga9999]

Sorry for the drift here, but I would like to go ahead and say what has been said indirectly. Regardless of the conversations that have occurred above, THANK YOU TO THE CARRUTH'S! While their are others to be thanked, Marcy and Sheldon volunteer their time and personal resources to the matches and take nothing in return for their work. Selflessness is what promotes our sport and I believe that these two are a model family for showing the rest of us what we could be doing to promote the shooting sports; especially 3Gun! Cheers to you and yours! Please know that we are behind you and what you do.

Well Said!

Agree 100%. I try to get there early to help set up and I stay to help tear down, but that is only a small contribution.

The Carruth's, Trey (spelling) and Jeremy make the matches.

Thank you.

Edited February 2, 2011 by biga9999

[biga9999]

This is evolving and will get better every match.

I missed each of the 500 yrd targets. As much as I did not like the 60 second penalty, it was better than the "mikes" I had on the steel pistol stage.

Doug, can I get you support on the Vertically Extended Portal Initiative?

Josh, want to extend them upward, not move them up.

Edited February 2, 2011 by biga9999

[M ammo]

This is evolving and will get better every match.

I missed each of the 500 yrd targets. As much as I did not like the 60 second penalty, it was better than the "mikes" I had on the steel pistol stage.

Doug, can I get you support on the Vertically Extended Portal Initiative?

Josh, want to extend them upward, not move them up.

Portal height,,, with the Doug's at 6 foot ++ and my Son who is 5 foot maybe,, thye both shoot the same stage,,

getting the hole so all can reach it,, is nice!

[biga9999]

I have a couple inchs on Doug. My thighs were screaming by the end of that stage from the wide sumo squat I need to see/shoot through the portal. If I was a better shot with a pistol, it would not matter.

If I could shoot over the wall I would, but Josh told me walls extend upward forever.

[biga9999]

It would be ideal to have a set of binoculars at the long range stage, and a set person to call hits. Whether that is the RO or another person. Sometimes we have them, and sometimes we do not.

Sometimes we call hits by committee and that can be problematic. I scored several shooters on that stage, and the RO did the right thing. He called hits as best he could and stood by his calls.

[aheadofthecurve]

It would be ideal to have a set of binoculars at the long range stage, and a set person to call hits. Whether that is the RO or another person. Sometimes we have them, and sometimes we do not.

Sometimes we call hits by committee and that can be problematic. I scored several shooters on that stage, and the RO did the right thing. He called hits as best he could and stood by his calls.

spotting scope would work better....

[biga9999]

It would be ideal to have a set of binoculars at the long range stage, and a set person to call hits. Whether that is the RO or another person. Sometimes we have them, and sometimes we do not.

Sometimes we call hits by committee and that can be problematic. I scored several shooters on that stage, and the RO did the right thing. He called hits as best he could and stood by his calls.

spotting scope would work better....

yep. But anything would be better than nothing.

[GorillaTactical]

Ok so we've received a wide variety of different scoring methods...good food for thought

What we've def. gathered here is that a rest (sandbag) is desired and a spotter is needed. With those things included, we will be making a big step forward in the "shootability" of, and scoring of LR stages.

[aheadofthecurve]

I don't think you need a sandbag...if you are prone its fine to monopod off the mags. If you are standing you will need some sort of brace.

[GorillaTactical]

What we've def. gathered here is that a rest (sandbag) is desired and a spotter is needed.

I don't think you need a sandbag...if you are prone its fine to monopod off the mags.

Def. don't need 1, but if there are going to be targets at 500 yards, there is significant value in having one

Edited February 3, 2011 by GorillaTactical

[elkboy]

The targets were full size LaRue - it was only the time limit that I did not like.

A friend shot his first match & used my gun and hit 5 out of 6 with one at 480

It was not That Hard

I agree with Jamie that the targets weren't OVERLY HARD TO HIT.....I don't have an excuse for missing as I've hit them plenty of times before....but the fact that I missed em at this match ended my day, the rest of the stages didn't even matter.

too make my point I must include times for reference:

Match winner won with a total time of 169 (over 5 stages)

I averaged about 3-4 seconds slower on each stage (so I should fall somewhere in the 180 region) except for the Long Range........my total time with the LR added in was 291 , and I hit half the targets

soooooo, back to the question at hand, what type of scoring platforms can you use to bridge the gap between "well I can just shoot once and take a little penalty" and the match killer penalty?

We have a similar situation at our monthly match. Our long range stage has 8- 6 inch to 10 inch plates from 175 to 310 yards. Our main range is limited to 200 yards so none of us gets to practice these longer shots unless we hold a special training session ,which I hope to have soon. This stage used to be a shotgun/long range stage with a 200 second par time. The shotgun portion was dropped but the par time stayed at 200. We are considering several different ideas to try to tighten the spread. The first one is to limit the average par time to 10 seconds per target, eight targets equals 80 seconds. Most of the shooters that are unsure of their holds do not just engage the targets and quit. It is easy for these shooters to end up with 18% for the stage. The ideal solution is to have enough training sessions for everyone to acquire the DOPE they need and to get comfortable shooting these distances. In the short term I am looking for ways to allow the shooters to seriously try to hit the targets without ruining their overall scores. My second thought is to require the shooter to engage the targets until they either hit them all or time out. This would stop someone from gaming the stage and make them legitimately try to hit the targets. I have never heard of this being tried before. I believe long range shooting is a important part of our sport, but it is just a part. In running different scenarios with the two different systems, the percentages definitely tightened up. Comments welcome!